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Featured Letter to Biden from 4,000 US car dealers: Slow BEV production and distribution

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Dec 2, 2023.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    No wonder this discussion is going in circles. The legacy automakers who declared "all in" have been saying that for a few weeks now.
     
  2. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    Proposed regulations, but too many evs are arriving at our lots now. I don’t get the letter yet. I thought dealers ordered all the vehicles on the lot for one thing. If they order too many, or the market changes, like they did with the Prius and Prius Prime in 2020, early 2021, they get stuck with them on the lot. That’s probably why you and I went down to look at them, fire sale.
    Maybe I don’t know enough about the workings of the dealer- manufacturer relationship. Like do they have to take all the different models?
     
    #62 Mr.Vanvandenburg, Dec 4, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2023
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    There is a lot of market uncertainty. That's not a good recipe for commitment. Like for here in Minnesota, the first set of California rules become active January 1st. That requires an inventory requirement but the state approved benefits (credits, HOV access, etc.) haven't been put in place yet. NEVI funded contracts haven't even been awarded yet either.
     
  4. FalconSeven

    FalconSeven Member

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    Where? You've provided no evidence other than Johnsay.
     
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  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I looked at Consumer Reports Ratings, and there are indeed already many options. I didn't realize there were already so many BEVs out there.

    However, indeed, no one is currently matching Tesla's quality-to-cost ratio. For example, Model Y is a top-rated luxury SUV that sells for only about $50k, and slightly higher-rated BMW iX costs about $100k, and lower-rated Genesis, Audi, Mercedes–Benz, etc. cost a lot more, too.
     
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The interior of an iX is nowhere close to the TMY. Also, it’s a full carbon fibre shell which adds to the cost. (And yes of course there’s the BMW brand name markup). I will agree on the EQS SUV as it’s not as competitive but the EQE SUV is closer. The Genesis eGV70 has a much nicer interior than the TMY imo. It looks and feels like a $60k car plus 240kW charging on 800V. The Q4 e-from is arguably the least competitive with average range, lower end of the charging time and power and a so-so interior (closer to A3 than A4/Q5 quality). Also, rear drum brakes.
     
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  7. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    Toyotas hold up in use when others do not, all the little parts that go in a car. My experiences anyway. CR has decades of data, Lexus and Toyota have a following for a reason. Used ones also are sought after. I see a BZ4X parked early in a school parking lot every morning. Must be the principal. I like that one a lot. The front pillars don’t look wide. Overall really nice.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's why everyone here wants toyota to get serious
     
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  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    actually - even though manufacturing is just a trickle - there is roughly a 45-day supply on new car lots last i recently checked. it's not a good sign when you are already seeing a lot of used of any model when there is only a small supply. Heck even out here in the boonies of the northwest there are 2 new ones that have been languishing at the Kalispell Ford dealership .... & the vw dealership that took one in trade send it out to auction. Why should somebody want to buy used when they can pick up a new one with no miles on it.
     
  10. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    To the topic, letters to a President go through a staff first to filter them. I wrote Obama and Biden letters and got responses. The one from Obama appeared to be signed by him personally. The Biden one was about his dog, and my ideas on how he may need to be with the family more to help with the biting, or some sage advice. I think it was only an email response from the WH staff. But he would have seen it.
    Maybe the car dealers will get a nice reply and Merry Christmas card.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Plenty of bzfourx on lots around here if you want a loaded one.
    Same with other mfgs. That’s why the days on lot average is growing
     
  12. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    Im not buying another car probably ever if I can.
    A full ev doesn’t fit my situation, I just like the idea. I can drive trips on gas cheaply now, town ev essentially free, why would I want to change what works? I can drive from LA to NYC tomorrow morning and not think about charging. Getting 55 mpg est , lets say 60 gals of gas at $4/gal. $240.
    3000 miles/ 4mi/ kwh = 750 kwh X 35 cents/ kwh = $262.50
    It’s not worth the trouble to charge to pay more. But I still drive free back at home like an ev.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a lot of people feel that way, that's why we have such a smooth transition going.
     
  14. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    I would guess an all electric Prime with a 700 mile range on solid state batteries is going to happen in 4 years. Then parking spot charging, no cables. They already do that with some municipal buses. Then more and more. Unless societies crumble, which looks like a real possibility. There always has been enlightened ages followed by dark back and forth, hasn’t there? Sometimes I think animals as we call them are much better.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I have a hidden supply of coal for heat when the lights go out
     
  16. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I don't think that will happen. We need a different type of battery other than lithium ion to pull that off, and I don't see that happening in 4 years. Either that, or we need Apteras.

    Parking spot charging adoption is also even less likely. Sure, some rich people are going to install that kind of tech in their heated garages. But we're a long way off before that will happen universally.

    The main problem right now is growth of adoption. I'm not saying there isn't growth, that people aren't adopting EV's. But although a lot of EV enthusasts like to say "it's game over, EV's have won, ICEV's are soon to all be replaced with EV's," that's not the case. At least not yet.

    EV's are not like smartphones. (Well, in some ways they are, but...) Everyone wants a smartphone. You are weird if you don't own or want a smartphone. But not everyone wants an EV. The majority of people are not buying EV's.

    Costs need to come down, buyer confidence needs to go up. We need this way more than 700 mile range solid state batteries that will most likely not be feasible to put on a Yaris or Corolla or Camry priced vehicle.
     
  17. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    But then the coal runs out. Tesla is discharged. Or Bolt I guess.
     
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Stocking stuffers
    .
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but in all seriousness, i would gamble a decent sum against toyota selling a 700 mile prius bev in 4 years
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't see it as a problem at all. ev growth is slow enough to improve the grid and grow renewable power, as well as increase and improve charging infrastructure
     
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