1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

life-cycle analysis bev versus conventional versus hybrid

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by austingreen, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,534
    4,063
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    since this question came up on another thread, I mentioned it to a friend, and she sent me this link. I am always distrustful of life cycle analysis. They are highly dependent on assumptions and often are done to show something is good or bad. This seems fairly well done by the folks at UCLA, but was funded by CARB so look out for pro BEV bias;)

    http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media_IOE/files/BatteryElectricVehicleLCA2012-rh-ptd.pdf

    conclusions -

    They used unsubsidized prices (no tax credits) in that analysis.
    They also found the bev to be least polluting and used the least energy over its lifetime. Both of which seem like good honest answers.


    The assumptions, they used a leaf, versa, and prius for their modeling, though tried to equalize the weights of the gliders a little for energy and pollution costs. Each car had a useful life of 180,000 miles, and they replaced half the cells in the bev battery. The california grid was used, but they also showed figures for california in 2020, the US average, and china.

    These life-cycle analysis are highly dependent on battery size and useful life (number of miles). I may have shortened the useful life of the leaf type vehicle, burdened it with a 100 mile pack, and not charged it with replacing the battery. The analysis also shows various battery replacement scenarios.

    The effects of burning tar sands oil instead of conventional are also included. More of this will be burned as time goes by.
     
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Even though the outcome is nice, I don't think these sorts of "studies" really mean anything. Way too many variables. Replacing half the cells in the EV also seems like a stretch. It is nice to have more studies, but you have to take these with huge grains of salt.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,534
    4,063
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Agree with that, but some tout these things with much worse assumptions, to say BEVs won't make it. They did talk about all the assumptions. At least we have reasonable costs environmental costs here for batteries. They did give costs for full replacement, and you can change mileage assumptions. We see on the prius, some replace cells, some the battery, most nothing. The old greet had the full battery being replaced, but now 2012_2 model fixes that, and now the prius is not charged with replacement.
     
  4. roflwaffle

    roflwaffle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    381
    77
    0
    Location:
    Orange County
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    I was going to say that it's probably too conservative. While Leaf's in warmer climates might require one replacement per 180k miles, it's possible that leafs in cooler climates might not need any battery replacement. It also depends on the driver. Some might decide to drop the $5-$10k on a newer BEV, and keep the older limited range car as a back-up.

    If I bought a Leaf, my daily commute would be ~25 miles. And since I live in a temperate climate, I'll probably hit 10 years/125k miles with 70% capacity as per Nissan's estimates. At that rate it would probably take another ~100+ miles before the range of my commuter dropped to the point where I couldn't safely use it for work.