Lithium Ion battery on Two Eco

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Technical Discussion' started by priusmatty, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I believe Canada does too. @Tideland Prius or @Mendel Leisk will be quick to correct me. ;)
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Prius v? We pretty much follow the US specification.

    Interesting to note that the UX250h uses a NiMH battery instead of Li-Ion.
     
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  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I meant Canadian Gen 4 have Li-Ion too.

    The real strange battery decisions are on the Hybrid Camry.
     
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  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Oh, yes that's right.


    Yeah.
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Or it could be that North America is a major hybrid market, and Toyota's competitors there had already moved on to Li-ion.

    The planning and staging for the gen4 introduction would mostly have occurred before dieselgate, which meant low expected sales of hybrids in Europe, with import taxes hurting Prii sales further. The latest and greatest for hybrid batteries may have been deemed unneeded for that market. This is the flip of how Toyota handles efficient technology introductions for ICE cars. Europe, in which such are more valued, get them before NA. The Valvematic engine option on the Corolla in the US is standard in Europe, for example.

    Toyota seems to mostly use Li-ion for weight savings. keeping the usable capacity of a pack near that of the NiMH for the model. If they space for the pack can fit the NiMH one, they could get a higher capacity Li-ion on the car, but they choose not too. Such weight savings may not provide Toyota with an usable benefit in the UX250h.
    Not when you factor in the effect of the car's weight in relation to testing parameters. The Prius Two Eco went as far as too leave off the rear wiper to reach a lower weight class for the Japanese test. this meant the car had to overcome less resistance on the test dynanometer. The Camryh LE has a better fuel economy rating in the US than in Canada, because they trimmed weight off it by using smaller steel wheels instead of the alloys used on the ICE and Canadian hybrid model.

    The higher trim Camries are heavier to begin with. Toyota isn't going to cut the features and larger wheels that make these trims desirable, and the weight savings for using the Li-ion pack likely aren't enough to make a difference on official tests.
     
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  6. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    PRIUS v isn't related to the Gen 4, but is based mostly on Gen 3 technology. (Australian PRIUS v has Li-ION.)
     
    #46 alanclarkeau, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  7. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    This thread alludes to Toyota not using lithium overseas,
    Toyo has used lithium overseas in non plug ins long than in the US market.

    That’s my only point.

    Toyo does an excellent job of getting the most of R&D dollars what’s old is new in many parts of the world.
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They used Li-ion in the overseas Prius v in order to fit the car with a third row seat that was expected of the segment. As with using it in the Prius Two Eco and Camry LE hybrid, it wasn't about pushing Li-ion advantages for better overall efficiency, but to save weight or space.

    Not that the others were pushing the envelope with Li-ion in the beginning either. Honda switched because their name with NiMH was mud, and the others because they were worried about Toyota getting most of the NiMH supply, and leaving them short. Hyundai though is with the Ioniq. Its traction pack capacity is nearly double that of the Prius. Space limits aren't the reason for the Prius pack being smaller, and if it was larger, the Ioniq liking wouldn't be matching it in MPG.
     
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  9. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I believe Toyota delayed on Li-Ion and was cautious to deploy because of Li-Ion laptop fires due to poor battery or charging design.

    Toyota knew they needed to get the design right.
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Which may have been their public statement, but they were also pushing hydrogen FCEV at the time, and had millions invested in the nickel supply chain. Not that safety couldn't have been a concern, but I don't think the Yaris still has a 4 speed automatic because they wanted to get the 6 speed or CVT just right, nor was Europe getting advanced valve timing in engines before the US because of safety or reliability concerns.
     
  11. tzx4

    tzx4 Active Member

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    Yes. -30 Not sure if this is F or C however.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    They're probably pretty close at that temp anyway.
     
  13. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    upload_2018-5-7_12-43-15.png

    It'd be easier if we all used ... Kelvin
    upload_2018-5-7_12-44-6.png

    That way - it'd sound realllly HOT even when there's a blizzard outside.
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  15. kithmo

    kithmo Couch Potato

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    Noticed today mine was reluctant to use EV until the cabin had cooled down a bit. It was 23C outside and probably nearer 40C in the car, which was sat in the sun, before starting up.
     
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  16. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    My 2013 ford cmax has a lithium battery. It still has strong ev performance. It has 43,xxx miles of pure EV driving and 71,000 in hybrid mode. They seem to be hold up well! I'm sure the prius will hold up even better!
     
  17. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    NB: -40°C = -40°F
     
  18. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    That's strange, mine stays in EV from cold start at 22C until I'm accelerating up the hill....
    .. even with the AC going full blast!
     
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  19. kithmo

    kithmo Couch Potato

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    But was it very hot in the car, like 40 deg C ?
     
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  20. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Yes, haven't noticed that A/C makes much difference, apart from using the battery a bit quicker. It's Heater ON which turns ICE on immediately.
     
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