Lithium Prototype Test

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by AzusaPrius, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Can you give us more details on how you got the lithium pack down to 2 bars? I've never been able to get it below 4 bars and have been trying often... Of course maybe I just need to head for the mountains?

    And yea, battery temps haven't never gone above 60's yet for me...
     
  2. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    Friday afternoon traffic in Eco mode just trying to use as much battery as I could but traffic was so slow and the incline made it happen.

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  3. Soh

    Soh Junior Member

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    So do you need to program the ECU to work differently??
     
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  4. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    @Soh

    What was your reason for that?

    If it was why the ICE did not charge it at two bars, I believe because normally the pack voltage needs to be lower so there for more MPG!!

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Keep in mind, the OEM temperature sensors take their measurements from the hottest part of the battery pack. On the bottom of the pack, with the sensor tucked into a recess on the bottom of the module. The cooling air has already flowed over the modules, in between modules and is then in the exit plenum with the sensors. They actually see air that has removed heat from the modules are in physical contact with the hot area of the modules.

    For the Gen 2: This battery has the temp sensors tucked in a large bump on top of the module, directly in the path of the incoming air stream. The construction of the battery module (earlier provided photos) has no heat generating material anywhere even near the top portion of the module. The sensors could just as easily have been mounted inside the cooling fan or to the outside of the case and be nearly as accurate. I wouldn't consider the temperature indications as a good or bad sign for the battery. They're relatively useless unless the battery gets absolutely smoking hot. Gen 3 will be slightly better, as the initial air flow enters from the bottom of the battery pack.
     
  6. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    Temperature of the battery is an important thing to watch and heat is what kills electronics.

    This pack stays cool and in turn will last longer than a standard hybrid pack.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  7. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    You still aren't listening. Look at the flowpath of cooling air. Look at the location of the cooling sensors. Learn a bit about fluid flow and heat transfer. When you use a real thermometer to take your temperature, where do you take the reading? Most people put it under their tongue to get an accurate measurement. It will be accurate even if you have a fan sitting 3 feet away and blowing in your face. Now hold the thermometer suspended in the air, halfway between you and the fan. Do you think it's going to give an accurate indication of what your temperature is? Temperature sensors mounted on top of modules in a Gen 2 is the same thing.
     
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  8. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Seems like the terminals might be a good non-invasive way to get a more accurate temp measurement. Also there's potentially enough space to get a temp sensor inside the 3D printed modules. Because Lithium is so much more powerful the packets inside are significantly smaller than their containers, which is great if there's a failure and a packet expands, but lithium is also more risky in terms of fire so you wouldn't wan to get to that point. I'll reach out to Jack and get his perspective on the need to get more accurate temp readings before he goes into full production.
     
  9. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    This was made to use the stock wires and setup and so it is reading pretty much the same and the temps are more than fine, there would be no reason to add wiring to get a reading to hopefully please one person.

    I hope that this person can understand this and if they really wanted to they can add their own since they know so much on the air flow.

    By the way if on a summer day if I had the fan override on full time the constant air reading would balance and show you what the temp is, up until the moment you shut the car off and the battery soak happens.

    My fan has never turned on with the Lithium pack because it never reaches the temp to do so not because pack is not OEM.

    Any heat produced by the pack will rise to the stock wiring.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  10. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    While I agree for the most part, the fact remains that we're testing these packs so an investment in selling large numbers of them doesn't fall apart if there's a handful of car fires. As @ericbecky explained to me on the phone yesterday... Lithium packs were done long ago by someone who's business fell apart due to warranty nightmares. There's lots of risks in terms of investing in such an endeavor.
     
  11. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    These are safer than other types and trust me if it were going to catch fire it would do it on the 15 freeway south doing 80 mph on the decline.

    Thats with an IPM that can fail on me.

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  12. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    :ROFLMAO:
     
  13. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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  14. Soh

    Soh Junior Member

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    I wanted to know if a Prius gen3 is programmed to run with capacity and charging criteria for an NImh battery and then if one were to replace that with a Lipo battery, would you need to reprogramme the ECU??
     
  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    You will likely never get a straight answer.

    I'm all for adding more options to the aftermarket, but at some point people are going to have to work on these or may buy a car that has this installed. A major component like this has to have information, not just a "believe me" button.

    I'm still curious about how the true SOC of the new battery matches up to the SOC indicated by the car. This is a fairly important issue that I can't get an answer for. Just because the car displays a SOC of 50%, it does not mean this LI battery is actually 50%. With LI batteries having a MUCH flatter curve from full charge to near dead, and apparently a much higher volt/cell, this battery could potentially be at the edge of complete discharge and still be showing 50% SOC in techstream. And I have a hard time believing this LI battery has some magic voltage curve that matches the oem NiMH when guys are on here displaying super high pack voltages, even after running on just EV for multiple miles.. Voltages that are WAY above the norm even for a fully charged OEM NiMH.

    I'm sure AZ will be along shortly with his expertise to explain it.
     
  16. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    See post #49....


     
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  17. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    @tmr

    I will have Jack install the believe me button and that extra temp sensor you want only if you actually buy one.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  18. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I've never needed to press the "believe me" button, but just in case, can you tell me where it's located?
     
  19. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Active Member

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    I have no clue and do not need one installed.

    Maybe the people who need to see or hear such button will come out with the schematics and upload them here in hopes that it makes them feel better?



    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  20. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Making people feel better? On the internet? That's crazy talk!!!
     
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