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Lithium traction battery degradation - 2012 plugin

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by willyag, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    10c isn't cold, but ideal temp is 20+ until you need a/c.
    as far as oscillating a couple miles a charge, that is concerning because the pip uses past driving history averages to determine the estimate. mine doesn't change quickly, but takes time to move up or down even a few tenths.

    i don't know how it is done in the u/k, but we get a window sticker on new cars, with testing done by government agency, or manufacturer to gov standards.
    in the u.s., it showed 6 miles until the engine came on, and a total of 11 miles. of course, ymmv.
     
    #41 bisco, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I saw sudden from time to time after a change from the norm, like a long highway drive or frequent charging. It reverted back to the usual after awhile.

    I'd suggest an aftermarket device. The Bluetooth ELM327 reader is $12 and the Torque app is $5.
     
  3. Pyrofer

    Pyrofer Junior Member

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    I had considered those solutions but I didn't know if I would be able to get any real data regarding the battery, do you know for sure that the Torque app can do that?
     
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    That's kind of harsh.
    Do we know what testing the UK uses? ( I assume London UK. May be London Ontario Canada.)
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I produced a number of videos using it with my 2012 Prius PHV.

    Like this one...

     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Not when origin is omitted. Specifying UK upfront would have be helpful. Here in the US we know salespeople are misleading, as well as published articles.

    It's nice having a excuse to keep a dialog going to with other owners, so knowing origin is a win. Sadly, we'll hear less from PHV (gen-1) owners over time.
     
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  7. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    OK, it could have been US too.

    upload_2018-3-19_9-50-9.png

    London (disambiguation) - Wikipedia
     
  8. Pyrofer

    Pyrofer Junior Member

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    Yes, sorry. London, England.
    We don't really do HOT or COLD here, so all the normal complaints about lost range due to AC or cold battery don't usually apply.
    The people saying the battery is losing range because it's cold are normally -13'c or something. We hardly get below 0'c in the winter here.
    I avoid using the AC or even the heater so the ranges I am talking about here are with the heating/cooling turned off.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    see post #41.
     
  10. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    UK uses European NEDC test cycle.
     
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  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    How about your driving mode? I've noticed a substantial reduction in range if I'm not in Eco mode. Also, having the HVAC on drops it by about 10% whether it's in A/C or just the vent fan on low speed.
     
  12. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    Could very well be a bad battery cell, wait til it breaks down totally on the road and then call Toyota and they will give you a brand new HV battery.
    I assume all of your charging unit and wiring healthy? I can assume, you can’t.
    Keep in mind that when you say everything is the same, that’s impossible. No two days are ever the same in any respect. You cannot sense a difference, but the car does.
     
  13. Data Daedalus

    Data Daedalus Senior Member

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    Are you referring to London UK? It’s been frightfully cold here, and temperatures barely made it to 3c today. We had a covering of snow over the last two days, with temperatures dropping as low as -2c at night.

    I believe all the sensors on the PiP will sample the temperature (and perhaps humidity) conditions and try to give you an approximation of what mileage you might get from the plug-in pack.

    I drive a 2008 Prius Tspirit, and even I have noticed my HV battery depletes marginally faster in the recent intense (for the UK) cold. Indeed, this morning, I lost 1.5mpg just driving to work. I needed heat in the cabin.

    Last week, the temperatures hit almost 15c and my mpg went up quite dramatically (59.7mpg) and the vehicle lasted much longer cruising in (auto inflicted) EV mode while cruising on cruise control. Today, it’s 57.5mpg - due to a -1c start this morning.

    What I’m saying in the temperature variation plays a major role in the amount of energy you can get out of the plug-in battery.

    I think your PiP is doing just fine. Some PiPs barely give 6.5 miles in cold weather, and I’ve read that’s supposed to be normal.

    I’m also fairly certain you’ll get much better performance when the temperatures rise to 18c and upwards.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
  14. QuantumFireball

    QuantumFireball Active Member

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    Which, unfortunately is complete fantasy and has little bearing on what you would get in reality. 15 miles was never going to happen, really. The heavy traffic in London won't help either. I find it normal for the estimate to drop during winter, though I'm not sure the effective range changes much. Best thing to do would be to reset one of the trip counters after a full charge and see how far it really goes.

    @Pyrofer do you hear any noise from the rear brakes, especially when pulling off after it's been parked up for a while? I lost some range due to a seized caliper guide pin.
     
  15. OlCo

    OlCo New Member

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    Hello!
    I can share with my experience if it helps.
    I live in Sweden, during summer it can happen +40 c. and during vinter -20, -35 c. is normal.
    I bought my pip last year, 2013 model but it was sold in 2014, more than a year parked at a dealer shop, ex. taxi with 360.000 km. on a clock.
    I drive 30% in EV according to info panel.
    In summer i get 19 km. range predicted but i usually get more like 20-22 km. easy driving, very gentle.
    In winter range drops to 15 km. Both cases no AC.
    I don't know what range this model had while new.
    I charge it 2-3 times a day, some time 4 times and it works just fine.
    In this scenario i get average fuel consumption 2,1 L/100 km.
    During a month i usually cover 2500-3000 km. distance.
    What you think about my car, is it ok, looks normal or i need to start worrying?
    Thank you.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I can't remember what the NEDC rating was for the PiP but the EPA rating here is 17-18km (11 miles) blended range so you seem to be doing fine.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    agreed, sounds like you have a great car. i wonder what happen to pyro (n)
     
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  18. QuantumFireball

    QuantumFireball Active Member

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    Yeah it sounds good. Smedjebacken must be very flat :)
    I'm still averaging around 16km (10 miles), but Cork is all hills.
     
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  19. OlCo

    OlCo New Member

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    Not really :), look at the google maps, up and down, very hilly.
    It's all about driving style.
     
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  20. Simtronic

    Simtronic Active Member

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    another kind of inaccurate :D
     
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