Looked at the Plug-in Prius today (Pictures inside)

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by muellerfilm, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. muellerfilm

    muellerfilm New Member

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    I am covering the LA auto show and my first stop was Toyota to check out the plug in Prius. I wish it had more range on just electric (13 miles up to 60 MPH) but this is just the beginning.
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    16 people like this.
  2. 9G-man

    9G-man Senior Member

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    very cool. not only do i want to see it, I want to drive it.
     
  3. Creaky

    Creaky Still motorin...

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    Thx Muellerfilm,

    Hmmm... So they're showcasing this puppy with Halogens, Fog Lights and Mirror Turn Signals...

    What I would really love to see would be any changes in the dash display.

    Did anything in the interior look any different perhaps?

    No antenna?

    Just wondering...
     
  4. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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  5. quantumslip

    quantumslip Member

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    wow the new displays are quite enlightening!

    i wonder if you can regen back into ev-only mode or if you're stuck in hybrid mode once you're in it.
     
  6. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    My guess is the PHV is in the depletion mode for the initial 13 mile in EV mode, from full to say 20% SOC.
    Then, it goes to the sustaining mode for the rest of hybrid driving, trying to keep the 20% target SOC (60% target SOC on the normal Prius).
    However, it has a lot of room for storing the regen energy on the long downhill.

    [email protected]
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That sucks. It'll be nice if it kept the 60% mode so that we can use it if we get stuck in traffic rather than have the engine idle when we're stopped. I guess it doesn't know if we want it empty so that we can charge it later or whether to keep it topped like a regular Prius. Perhaps Toyota can have a "PHEV" mode which covers EV Drive Mode and tells the car not to top up the battery. If the driver takes it out of PHEV mode, it will top it up.


    Btw, anyone noticed it was a French Prius? It's LHD and has a rear foglight on the driver's side. It's the same Prius shown in France.
     
  8. vahrn

    vahrn New Member

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    I wonder if Toyota is going to make a PHEV conversion kit for the 2010 regular Prius, I really would apreciate that..
     
  9. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Toyota has stated that current 2010's cannot have their battery swapped out for a LiIon pack.
     
  10. garygid

    garygid Senior Member - Blizzard Pearl

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    Needs to have a user-controlled selection to "charge the battery to":
    1. around 60% (or so) for extended driving,
    2. perhaps 80% for "city" driving,
    3. probably 20% (or so) for nearing "home" or other extended-charging location.

    Charging should only begin when the SOC gets to some appropriate "low" level in each case, perhaps 20% SOC.

    What are they planning to do to keep individual cells balanced?
     
  11. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I think you have to understand the depletion mode and sustaining mode more. :)
    The 13 mile EV range uses 70% (90%-20%) of the battery capacity.

    If it kept 60% SOC for the sustaining mode, you can use only 90%(my guess) to 60%, which means your EV range (using 30% of capacity) becomes only 5.6 mile.

    We see 40% to 80% (target 60%) SOC on the regular Prius.
    My guess is the battery capacity of plug-in is more than 3 times of the regular Prius.
    Then, we'll see 13% to 26% (target 20%) in the sustaining mode of the plug-in.

    [email protected]
     
  12. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    I think your opinion is inconsistent.
    For example in the case-1, what happens when the SOC becomes lower than 60%?
    Charged by ICE up to 60%? or Discharged until 20%?
    I believe the cell balancing is necessary only for series/parallel battery construction.
    I think Toyota uses only series construction using big capacity individual cells, then we don't need the cell balancing.

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  13. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    It's then much as other plug-in hybrids - charge depletion (not depression, Ken) down to a specific level, then charge-sustaining below that level.

    Think of it as a current Prius but instead of having 8 bars on the battery meter, with the car targetting six out of eight, it has 40 bars and targets six out of 40. The only real difference is that in charge-sustaining mode it won't be trying to spin the ICE to burn off the eighth bar of charge after a long mountain descent.

    By asking for a 60% maintained charge you're asking the car to run the engine excessively to charge up from six bars to 24 bars, which is way more than it needs right now to achieve 50mpg. Calculations have already shown that you get diminishing returns from extra capacity in a charge-sustaining hybrid, and Toyota have ruled out Li-Ion for regular hybrids for this reason.

    The Prius behaviour is to be more aggressive the further away it is from the sustained-charge level, so you'd really be consuming way more fuel. The point is to get those electrons from external sources, not to burn on-board fuel relatively inefficiently.

    The specs don't say what the fuel tank capacity will be, but the video (on another thread) seems to indicate a new charger unit in that vicinity which will reduce capacity a bit. The battery largely takes the place of the spare tyre and under-floor storage space on the current car.
     
  14. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Active Member

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    Did Toyota rush the plug to better the Volt, if you live in a small town 13 miles will either get you everywhere or no where
     
  15. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Thank you!
    I stand corrected.

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  16. Indyking

    Indyking Happy Hyundai owner...

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    I can careless... if they keep the same interior quality as my 2010, which is likely because Toyota appears to be sold on the idea of the lighter weight the better, I prefer get something less FE and pay for the extra gas... after all, I probably would have to drive 300K miles or more before the savings in gas breaks even with the additional cost of the plug-in...
     
  17. Garmy

    Garmy Junior Member

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    It would seem to me that only getting 13 miles max out of a plug in charge is going to make this option NOT cost effective at all. They would have to include it as a no charge improvement in the current model. At 50 miles/gal and $2.50 gal this would only be about $.65 (less the cost of electricity) in savings for having to plug in your car after every use.
     
  18. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    This, the Volt and all the others soon to arrive are only the first baby steps IMO. The technology must be developed and put into service since it's very likely that in 10+ years that we'll want and need it. But expecting anything useful out of these right now is very unrealistic IMO, except for the isolated user.

    None of the EREVs, PHVs or EVs have any value for me at this time. They certainly don't at the prices being mentioned.
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Right. But I mean after the battery gets depleted (say 20%) and we're no longer in EV Drive mode and back to regular HSD operations. You mentioned that in sustaining mode, HSD tries to keep it at 20%. Does that mean that the battery is only showing 1 bar (for this example, 1 bar is about 20% SOC) for the entire trip? Did I misunderstand you in your first reply?


    Cause how I'm reading it, is that HSD in sustaining mode keeps the SOC from 13-26% with the target of 20%, right? This is so that the battery is "empty" when you get to your destination so that you can recharge it.

    MY question is, what if your desintation doesn't have a charging port and you want the system to act like the regular HSD and have it charge up to 40-80% with a target of 60% SOC??


    So for going to work, I'll use the Depletion mode, then have the car act like a regular Prius so that on the drive home, i'm not using the engine all the time because the battery SOC is kept low. Say, half way from work to home, I know I can get home on EV only, then I can switch back to depleation mode and EV back home so I can charge at 20% SOC.


    Does that make sense?
     
  20. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    Given my 150 mi ( 250 km ) daily commute this would be my major concern as well.
     
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