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Lookee here, an actual almost-intelligent discussion, headlined on the Washington Post

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by chogan2, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Climate-change science makes for hot politics - The Washington Post

    Can we hope that facts may enter the debate?

    "Former Utah governor Jon Huntsman Jr. (R) on Thursday tweeted: “To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming. Call me crazy.”

    I have to say that I disagree with Huntsman on more-or-less every significant issue. But, based on this, given the weight I give to this issue, he'd get my vote. Evolution is just a bonus.
     
  2. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    Yeah because votes, politicians, and consensus are really what counts when attempting to understand to what extent climate change is anthropogenic.
     
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  3. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Well, no. You said that, I didn't.

    But I would say that when the Republican party requires denial of global warming as a litmus test for its serious candidates, that's less-than-helpful for getting public policies that reflect our current state of understanding.

    And I think that having leading Republican presidential candidates describe global warming as hoax or fraud reduces the chances of having some type of serious consideration of the facts.

    So, it was refreshing to see one guy -- even if he has no chance whatsoever of getting the nomination -- actually using his brains, rather than falling into lock-step with the Republican party litmus test on these issues.
     
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    :D

    Isn't all about giving out pork to your friends, you know like in cap and tax, or maybe opening up new coal mining areas

    I don't think its even high on the agenda. Science has never been a big priority in the party. Now if you liked W. but thought he was too moderate, intelectual, and scientific Perry has entered the race. Bachman still seems the farthest down the rat hole.

    hey don't we have the IPCC and al gore for that
    Al Gore's Critique Sparks Debate Over Obama's Record on Global Warming | PBS NewsHour | June 22, 2011 | PBS

    it seems that sometime being reasonable means that those in your own party will try to destroy you.

    Hey that guy near the front of the pack "believes" in global warming and magic underware. Give it up, if they nominated the smartest scientist you would find a reason to hate the republican.
     
  5. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Not that he is my hero either, but Chris Christie just came out today and agreed with Huntsman. Sounds like he isn't going to be the nominee of the GOP!

    Icarus
     
  6. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    He's wasting his time and money. He's stupid if he thinks he can say this publicly and win the republican nomination. It'd be the equivalent of a democrat saying, "I only like white people and not ethnic minorities" and then try to win the democratic nomination.
     
  7. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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    Well, Romney agrees with Huntsman and is the clear favorite to win the nomination.

    Oh, the last Republican nominee agreed with Huntsman too - and wasn't the darling of religious fundamentalists nor of the tea party.

    edit : So, I think an apt comparison would be a Democrat who talks about being pro-life. It is just a requisite in some states and they will adopt that line - just like Republicans in blue states talk about how environmentally friendly they are.
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    AustinG, I think that a lot of self-described environmentalists wish that Obama had pushed harder on this issue, since the election. I got the same impression from the NPR transcript you posted. But the economy is tight and pretty much constraining all aspects of domestic policy. What's a feller (in the White House) to do? In other words, Al Gore is not the central figure, at least not in my eyes.

    I would be interested in your perspectives of TX governor Perry, now that you have left some tantalizing hints. Don't know much about him.
     
  9. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Really? I didn't know that about Romney.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    actually, harry reid kinda said that about obama and is still well liked. :) mods! fhopol!
     
  11. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    And Dems require the opposite...a stated belief in catastrophic global warming. Same difference.
     
  12. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    True and Obama said in his book he hates white people or something to that effect.
     
  13. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Is that today or was that his view yesterday? ;)

    Maybe Huntsman's angling for VP.

    It's true. You have to remember that no-hopers in the race are thinking of their future.
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Most of us in Austin don't like the governor, but my city is different than most of the state. Environmentally his policies are very bad. The governor here appoints a 3 member advisory board that has a great deal of power. Perry has put people on the board that only seem to be in favor of the property rights of the polluters, not clean air and water for our citizens. There is a great deal of industrial and refining polution that could be reduced with just some sound policies. On the plus side he did vote for modernizing the grid to add more renewable energy, something Texas leads the nation with. Texas also has tougher fracking disclosure than most states and perry pushed that through, but it was probably because he didn't want to lose regulatory power to the federal government. It needs to be remembered that perry in 1988 was al gore's campaign manager for texas, and perhaps some of the harsher global warming rejection rhetoric is to distance himself from his old self. Old other possibility is rejection of policy is easier if you point doubt at the science. He is cost texan's money with a lawsuit suing the epa about regulating co2 under the clean air act.

    The things people here are most upset about is his desire to cut teachers during this budget shortage. The next was pushing a bill to force pregnant women wanting an abortion to be forced to watch a sonogram before getting the procedure. Finally on his biggest anti-libertarian bent, he had his day of prayer trying to make texas have a Christian government, not a government with freedom of religion. The court still is deciding whether this was illegal, but would not issue an injunction stopping it.

    As bad as these things are, he probably has a good chance to get the presidential nomination.
     
  15. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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    Perry and Romney split on global warming - The Washington Post

     
  16. evnow

    evnow Active Member

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    This is one of the areas where Romney has actually been consistant.

    It is not difficult to figure out why. Romney is essentially the Wallstreet nominee - and wallstreet likes cap & trade. They would also treat someone with Perry's or Bachmann's attitude as a crazy person.

    Won't happen. If Romney is the nominee he will have to get a more conservative running mate - and that won't be Huntsman. If someone else is the nominee, Romney would be the natural choice for VP - if he wants it. There is also Pawlenty, a reliably conservative and yet maintream Republican (who actually refused to attack Romney in the debate).
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^
    That about sums it up: the repub party has migrated so far right-fanatic that t-paw almost looks normal. Or does he join in the 'EPA is destroying America' repub meme ?
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Quick summary of the past 10 years for the repubs:

    Engineered the worse recession in US history
    The Iraqi War
    AGW Denialists, strident anti-environmentalists and corporate flunkies
    Anti-abortion, Pro machine guns

    What is not to hate ? The only people willing to vote repub in my opinion have the memory of a gnat, or are tea baggers.