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Looking at a 3G

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by qmanqman, Mar 20, 2023.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Toyota's prices for the same parts wiggle over time, sometimes a lot.

    According to the prices I put in this 2017 post, which were current at the time, those two parts would have come to $3585 list if you had done the work then. Typical dealer discounts might have knocked that down to around $2700.
     
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  2. Ryan Will

    Ryan Will Member

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    For me when finding Toyota parts... of course the parts.toyota.com website is extremely helpful, but also using that site and shopping various dealerships really shows the difference in pricing. I found that there are basically two dealerships near me that discount parts quite a bit (sometimes like 30% off). And since they're local, I can just pick up with no shipping charge. But if you had to ship, perhaps searching different dealer's prices, combined with shipping, might still be beneficial.

    Example is that I can get an OEM oil filter for basically $4.... and I believe when I'm due for a battery, the dealer I use sells theirs for just a tad under $200. That's cheaper than any other brand I found. So, it certainly helps to shop different dealers to get the best pricing.
     
  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    You must have a mechanic shop discount. I have never seen those prices anywhere for new oem.
     
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  4. aperry1971

    aperry1971 Junior Member

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    Keep preaching ...AGREE 100% with you!!!!
     
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  5. aperry1971

    aperry1971 Junior Member

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    I rely on you for my advice...You and several others on this site ARE hybrid specialists!!!
     
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  6. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    #26 Mr. F, Mar 21, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
  7. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    This is what people do They only count the cost of the parts. They're not paying themselves for their time. Count up the hours and multiply by your hourly rate. What is your time worth if you went to work for all of those hours instead of working on the car? And don't forget all the hours you spend doing research and learning and the money you spend on tools and a computer with the cable and the software. Add it all up because you're not just going out after dinner and tinkering in the garage for 30 minutes. Fixing this car is a full-time job when you've got to do a head gasket and a brake booster and a few other things such as what you have. I'm not the only person here who thinks that your time isn't free
     
  8. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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  9. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    Toyota refers to that part as the brake booster with master cylinder assembly in the manual, and as just the brake master cylinder in the SimplePart catalog (even though it is considerably more than that). I'm sure anyone taking on the repair would make themselves aware of the terminology. It is the only expensive part needed if one has determined that to be the case.

    My point was simply that the parts cost only ~$1122 even if one chooses to indiscriminately replace both major components, not ~$2300.
    upload_2023-3-23_9-39-55.png

    I don't get paid by the hour so I would not have made any more money in the time I spent on repairs. Somebody who does should easily be able to decide for themselves whether a mechanic's labor would be cheaper.
     
  10. qmanqman

    qmanqman Active Member

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    I'd do the work myself but that list of things to do is a list of things I avoid doing.
     
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  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It's very common to mix up the "booster" with the "booster pump" because the names are so similar. Mr. F did link to the booster, and gets a gold star for using the names correctly.
     
  12. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Toyota.Com is calling the booster pump a booster And they're calling the master cylinder a master cylinder. Please see links and screenshots below. Did you have a different source for your information?


    2014 Toyota Prius Pump assembly, brake booster. Brakes, suspension - 4707047060 - Genuine Toyota Part



    2014 Toyota Prius Pump assembly, brake booster. Brakes, suspension - 4707047060 - Genuine Toyota Part
     

    Attached Files:

  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    We also have some PriusChatters who regularly get thrown by the comma-inverted way that part names appear in catalogs. It's why you see so many people talking about the "wire, frame" as if its name were "wire frame" when of course the correct name is "frame wire".

    When you look in the catalog and see "Pump assembly, brake booster", you have just learned that you're looking at the "brake booster pump assembly". (That's not its only name; other Toyota docs will refer to the accumulator or accumulator assembly.)

    So let's also take a closer look at the parts.toyota listing for the other part:

    bawmc.jpg

    You'll notice it has a longer name that matches the diagram Mr. F supplied in #29, which of course is also straight from Toyota, as is this one:

    [​IMG]

    That upper assembly goes by multiple names; "brake booster assembly" and "master cylinder" are not even all of them. In different places in Toyota manuals and bulletins, you also see that same part called the "brake actuator" and the "skid control ECU".

    Strictly speaking, it is not any one of those things; they are all different things, and it's just a big assembly that includes them all. The skid control ECU is the squarish part on the right of it. The master cylinder is the roundish part the brake pushrod goes into. The booster is the small fluid chamber behind the master cylinder piston, where the fluid pressure helps you push. The actuator is most of the rest of the thing.

    [​IMG]

    In any case, Mr. F still gets the credit for using the names correctly.
     
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  14. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Is see what you're saying.

    The accumulator and pump are one assembly. (Should leave out "booster" before "pump" ) Them there's the booster/ecu/skin control assembly. Does the manual really call them by other names? So frustrating. It opens up opportunity for big mistakes.

    I'm find with the reversed sentences w commas. Pretty sure all mfg's do it. The word before comma is "pump" and the word after comma defines the system it pumps "brakes" so you can search an alphabetical index of "device, system"

    Like this:
    Filter, air
    Filter, cabin
    Filter, oil
    Filter, traction battery

    Keeping things categorized by what they are rather than by system they are in

    Btw: can u site the sources of the photos you provided? Are they from the Toyota service manual?
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yes, the other names are all used, so a troubleshooting procedure for a brake code might end up, for example, saying to replace the skid control ECU, if the code is about some electronic problem. Troubleshooting for a different code about a valve issue might say to replace the actuator.

    It's confusing, but in their defense, they do publish a New Car Features manual that gives the overview descriptions and explanations of all the things in the car; the Repair Manual is kind of written on the assumption that the reader has seen that.

    Maybe they should leave out "booster" before "pump", but they often call it the "booster pump". They even call it the booster pump in Gen 2, which has no booster. In the other generations, which all have boosters, it's just necessary to remember that the booster and the booster pump are two different things.

    Exactly. Yes, it makes perfectly good sense once a person understands it. But a lot of posters on PriusChat don't yet, and they will call things by a backwards name because they didn't notice the comma. You don't get a lot of people calling a thing a "filter air" or a "plug spark", but it happens all the time with people calling "wire, frame" the "wire frame" instead of the frame wire.

    It doesn't help a lot that parts.toyota.com has some part names in comma-inverted form and others written straight. It seems like they were loaded in different batches, with the ALL CAPS names usually being comma-inverted, and the mixed-case ones being straight.

    Really, the comma-inverted technique was more necessary back when you had to look for parts in an alphabetized sheaf of paper. When you've got a computer to do the searching for you, either way works fine. But people still need to know how comma-inverting worked, to know how to say those names when they still show up that way. :)

    Pretty sure I grabbed that drawing of the two assemblies from T-CP-D0H-A510-D [checks ...] yup, on page 9 of the technical instructions part.

    You can also see (page 6) one of the brackets holding up the "booster w/ master cylinder assembly" being called the "actuator bracket". There's no getting around just having to know the various names for the things.

    Some years ago I made a post that tried to gather in one place the names of the different brake parts as they got reshuffled in gen 1 through gen 4.

    The diagrams of the hydraulic circuits can be found in the New Car Features manual for the generation of interest. Diagrams for Gen 4 and Gen 3 can be found on this thread that discussed the differences between them:

    Prius 4th GEN Brake diagram | PriusChat
     
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  16. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    For you to know all this obviously you were in the repair industry? B/c nobody else would know this stuff....

    I started in a tractor shop as an apprentice in 1989. We had a card catalog of microfiche and a viewbox. Big brown and reliable. It smelled like plastic melting in a Kodak w an old wire and bulb loleach mfg supplied their own indexed fiche. Our parts ordering area was organized. Every mechanic put his card away when done too. We were so diligent. I enjoyed that. We did order some aftermarket from Stens. Lots of spindle bearings ordered by the gross. I got my first ASE in 1993 eventhough I never fixed cars until recently.... not even my own. And I still don't wanna fix cars for ppl. The questions some customers ask and the accusations some will make r so redic....

    What's ur history?
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Only briefly was I actually employed in repairing physical things for other people at retail, before college. Since then, I've been able to be more selective about who to fix stuff for.

    For several years I owned a 1984 Bronco II. There was only one guy at the parts counter at the local Ford dealer who had the skills to find parts for it. Back then, this dealer's parts window was open till midnight, and that was the shift he had, so any time I needed any part more obscure than a filter or spark plug, it would turn into another after-dark parts run. He would see me coming and go in the back and come out with old three-ring binders and a box of microfiche, and find the part.

    All the younger guys would just say, uhh, the computer doesn't show that.
     
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  18. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    I know how to identify the pros in the parts dept. It's not how consumers think I would. And I'm not going to teach them here how or why. Let the amateurs go to Advanced/Zone/Reilly. Get all the Chinese junk u can. Throw parts at it boys lol maybe I can get my gf to buy me a toy miniature (parts)cannon for my desk for Christmas lol

    Chapman u and I and a handful of others here r different from them. Amateurs think they'll save money tinkering but they seldom do. Too many reasons why. My hat off to u man
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Re-reading what I wrote in #37, I see I said "the younger guys would just say, uhh, the computer doesn't show that", and that's not quite right. It wasn't an age thing. Randy was pretty young himself. It was just, he had paid attention to all the information sources they had available and how to interpret them and combine information from more than one, and the other guys hadn't.

    We lost a great resource when he got hired away to be parts manager at some dealership in, maybe, Pennsylvania I think it was.
     
  20. qmanqman

    qmanqman Active Member

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    Started as a 16 year old son of a single mom of 4 who's 1965 VW Bug was worthless if this son didn't figure out how to fix it with the Craftsman hand carry tool box and less than 99-piece Craftsman wrench and socket tool set. When we couldn't afford a battery or didn't have the cash to get the alternator/generator repaired we made sure to part the car on a hill so we could push start it. Our driveway had a slight hill to it so we could even get it started in reverse.

    Replace a shtton of parts with whatever Checker Auto/whoever else sold parts back then. I always heard people make fun of Checker Auto for being junk but I kept a lot of cars maintained at peak shape using their parts. I'm 60 now and have no problem buying parts from AZ/O'Reilly/Amazon/Rockauto/etc. I've saved a shtton of money and my cars are always 100% reliable.