Looking Back: Was Vietnam "Worth It"?

Only knee-jerk, unprofessional economists would use just unemployment figures to see how an economy is doing.

What in the world do the French have to do with any of this discussion? Are you pissed off at them for some reason?

 

To show you the correlation of unemployment data.

france -
unemployment 11+ %
minority unemployment 40-50% minimum, higher in their muslim dominated slums
GDP growth 1%

US
unemployment 4.7%
minority unemployment 9% (lowest in decades)
GDP growth 2.5% minimum

 

From the Economist, Feb. 11th-17th, 2006 page 96

(There are tables on data on the page)
"Overview
Unemployment in America fell to 4.7% in January, the lowest rate since July 2001. Companies (not including farms) added 193,000 workers to their payrolls, after adding 140,000 in December and 354,000 in November.
But it was not all good news.
Productivity, as measured by output per hour, fell at an annual rate of 0.6% in the fourth quarter, the first drop since the first quarter of 2001. Workers' compensation - including wages, taxes and employers' contributions to benefits - failed to keep pace with inflation for the third quarter in a row."

And a housing bubble deflation has yet to hit the US. That will be really ugly for the Banking and Finance industry, and our poor will take another hit.

Then there's the coming bird flu. That will, unless the USFDA is doing lots I haven't heard about, devastate the poultry industry.

But I don't want to hijack this topic, the "worthiness" of the Vietnam War, with a discussion of economics.

 

Sure the numbers look good, they are "revised" to look good. This right-wing nut appears to think so:

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/statistic-wizardry.htm

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/cur-year-defi...sts.htm#paydebt

http://www.dailyreckoning.com/

I took all four years of college Calc and Stats. Numbers are easy to fudge, just write-off the unemployed who have given up trying to find a job and Presto, magic low unemployment figures that nobody outside the U.S. actually believes.

 

Then why bother with US citizenship at all? ...and this whole uppity thing you have about having served, you know, the way you keep bringing it up as if it somehow gives you more credibility, BFD, you did Nat. Guard duty in Utah, just because you had no idea what to do with your life at that point, and just signed on the dotted line for lack of anything better doesnt make you any more of an authority... I may be a spoiled nut, but thats far better than a crusty bitter old man ashamed of being American. Again, why bother, with your US citizenship... oh wait, there are probably some financial advantages to it arent there...

Hey, good for YOU! No one goes around yelling, HEY IM AN AWESOME AMERICAN, SUCK IT WOMAN! :lol:

I dont quite share your dependency outlook, and get this, that attitude is precisely arrogant American, v.2.1 Canadian Style.

Oh, and why not If such were the case, it would put a nice hole in your core beliefs wouldnt it so just lets not explore it right, hands on our ears... typical.
For whatever it s worth, NO ONE is claiming Saddam had anything to do with 9 11, however i dont turn a blind eye to the possibility he might have, just us commonfolk dont know it yet for various reasons. MY argument is that there IS a good argument for Iraq, for reasons Im not going to restate. Folks like you just seem to gloss over this, again, hands over ears.

hey, no argument there, the political landscape is never consistent, you cant apply hindsight as such to a current landscape. Its just like arguing over how x fund performed between 1981 and 1984, and trying to somehow relate it to a totally different fund now...

 

Obviously, any war that cannot be fought with an all-volunteer army is not worth it to the families and friends conscripted to fight and returned missing limbs, psychologically destroyed, or in body bags. On the other hand, such a war may or may not have been worth it to those wealthy enough to feel safe from the draft, depending upon their political beliefs for society. And pretty much all wars are "worth it" to those few who love carnage in general.

 

WAAAAAAA I"M TELLING MY MOMMY that's how I see you reacting to this, God what a rant on your part. Whiner. If most people are like you, America is surely doomed. Just a bunch of whiny selfish ignorant punks. As you say: BFD.

Wanna know why I did the UNG? A sense of duty and a good way to cover part of my college. I didn't have weathly parents to spoil me and pay for a new car and college.

I actually did want to join the Marines, like my Grandpa and my Dad had, but my Dad swore he would kill me himself rather than make a mistake like that. Kind of hurt me at the time, now I'm really glad I didn't.

Of course, you claim you wanted to head off to Colorado Springs and the USAF academy. You claim you had some weird eye problem. My opinion: they realized you would never respond to authority and glady made up an excuse like that just to keep you out.

As far as citizenship issues, you'll be happy to know I renounced and took all my money with me. Good timing too, the Cdn dollar was at a real low and I cleaned up.

Although I still have fond memories of Utah and visit twice a year, there is no way I'd move back. The damage done by the neocon nuts will take generations to undue and I'm not that patient.

Actually you wouldn't like Utah, too strict.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Damn I love this forum!

Actually, in hindsight, it was a good thing it didnt work out, and not for reasons you might think, but rather who the hell knows what they want out of life at 18... My cousin is actually a graduate from the Academy, and now 15 years later, couldnt wait to get out, did so, and seems to regret it... ive heard career military folks get sh*t on like all time, youve got to have the right attitude i.e. be able to take a lot of cra*

you re right on for me not taking to orders too well...never have, likely never will... sue me.

gotta hand it to you there jayman, you actually did it. too bad a bunch of whiners i seem to come across with increasing frequency, dont have the nuts to do the same thing.

 

Jayman, having a Canadian passport you can freely visit Cuba without being considered a traitor (if interested). I always wonder why can't I as a US Citizen in the "most free country on the planet" visit Cuba on my own, even if it is for sun-bathing or a real cigar nostalgia? Hemmingway's favorite place, it would have been nice to chill out with gulp of absinth in some of those historical bars. I guess I gotta wait until Castro dies and our government will revoke the individual travel ban.

 

The WWII quote says a lot about you. Your Noam Chomsky (naive) quote says more. I am thnkful to ALL those who fought in WWII, and the Civil war (on union side), and revolutionary war........there HAVE been honorable wars.

edited to add- Spunky, I read farther into this and some other posts and you are like, a split personality or you really don't know yourself very well. As far as your comment about being a cop....stick to nurse...you gotta do things EVERY day that you don't agree with......but it is the way it is.

 

Respectfully, I'd like to disagree what may constitute naïveté, he happens to be a quite intellectually inclined theoretician, simply because you find his critical output less appealing, it's far from naive.

 

True enough, and I have for every year since 1999 (I renounced in '98). I normally go in Jan, but skipped this year due to the death of my Mother on Christmas Day.

I'm not generally a smoker, have tried pipes (My Dad used to smoke pipes until I turned 18 or so) and stogies. Trust me on this: there is a *huge* difference between a Havana stogie and one you buy in the U.S.

Otherwise Cuba is cheaper than other popular destinations, plenty of Europeans cooking on the beaches, and I like the food. Some would say it's a repressive Commie Police State, maybe it is.

Of course, repression of free speech, secretly spying on the citizens without a court authorized mandate, etc, would never happen in the U.S.

Right?

 

Schmika!

WWII was a difficult time for Japanese Americans. While there were many who volunteered to serve, others felt it their patriotic duty to resist attempts to draft them out of the camps (where they and their families had been interned).

Sorry if I came across as someone with a split personality but WWII was a complicated time for JAs who had been imprisoned by their own government, and then asked to serve the same.

I'm researching the events of the time for a novel I'm writing. I can't decide which group I would have fallen into, if I had been around then. I consider both the fighters and the felons, heroes.

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/conscience/the_story/index.html

It might be the same, difficult decision for those Iraqis who want to serve their country in its police force - but must decide if it would be more patriotic to fight for their own "tribe" (religious group/family/protective faction).

Might be as tough to decide between becoming a police officer or joining your elder brothers' gang, in a town where the police tend to be corrupt.

But once the coin is tossed then you must play by the set of rules, chosen.