Lost 10mpg after EGR clean, etc. Now losing mind!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by FriedCells, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I watched that video a few years back.
    It's too much like work! :)
    And I don't have to time to be playing around like that.
    "If", "when" I start having Hybrid Battery issues, I'll use my credit card and purchase
    the Prolong system. Install it, plug it in, and let it do it's automatic thing! (y)

    I agree with royrose, good candidate for reconditioning. Buying cells is just putting
    a bandade on it. It might work, or might not work. And having to remove and disassemble
    that whole thing 3,4,5 times a year???? Noooooooooo

    But, it's your car, and time. :) You have to do what you think is best.

     
    #41 ASRDogman, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  2. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Yeah, excited to do the recondition. I enjoy taking things apart anyways. And I don't have a garage or driveway, and finding someone to leave my car in theirs to use the Prolong isn't something that I really want to do. I took the battery out along with everything else a few weeks ago. It wasn't that difficult. Once you do it once or twice, maybe a 15 minute job. See photo:
    IMG_20200916_170326.jpg
    I applied a sound dampening and vibration resistant paint to the entire interior floor and doors. My ride is so much quieter now. Made a world of difference in noise level inside the car.
    But also, don't think I'll be doing the reconditioning 3,4,5 times a year. Maybe every 6 months. I don't let my car sit more than 2 days without using it. So that use should keep things fairly healthy. Anyway, I will enjoy it regardless. Always learning more. I enjoy that part of it.
     
    #42 FriedCells, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  3. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Mine is driven every day pretty much. Maybe 29 out of 30 days. And about 6 times
    a week are 3 hour trips.

    Well, you could take the battery out, install the harness and do the reconditioning in your house. :)

    But, I do hope it works for you and your battery lasts a long time.

    I'd like to install the sound dampening in mine. Maybe one day. 99.9% of the time I'm listening to
    podcasts in the Prius and that's louder than the road noise. :)

     
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  4. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    That's a good idea also. We'll see. If the method that I'm trying turns out to be unpleasantly, unbearably laborious, I can always sell the equipment that I bought for the same cost and go the Prolong route as an option next time around.
     
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  5. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    So, I made a list of things to check based on recommendations in this thread. While I'm waiting on my equipment to recondition my Hybrid battery, thought I'd go ahead and check other stuff. Thought I'd start with easiest to check things first. This suggestion to check 12V battery was 2nd after looking into my inverter coolant for swirling. I checked my 12V battery this morning after letting it sit all night. 11.4V! Turned on ACC mode. 10.9V! After turning on vehicle, with vehicle running: 13.3V! All these seem about 1 Volt below where it should be! I'm truly shocked. I always heard such good things about the Optima Yellow Top battery. It's only a year old or less. But shouldn't it still show 14+ Volts with car on as HV battery is sending voltage? I'm wondering if it's the battery or something else. I've read on Optima website that auto stores can't properly test AGM type batteries....only specialist shops.
     
  6. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Kinda sounds like you have a defective battery. ALWAYS keep reciepts! :)
    It may just be low from sitting while you did all the work on the engine.

    You could contact Amazon and ask them to check into it for you. They are usually pretty
    good about this stuff. If you know the date, or close to it, that you purchased it, they should
    be able to find it. Check your credit card statements for that information.
    You might also try contacting Optima themselves, they should warranty it.

    If the battery is weak, or has a bad cell, it will draw more voltage and amperage as it tried to charge.
    And they hybrid battery only supplies "X" amount of both to charge the battery and run the accessories.
    So 13.3v with the car in the "run" position, may not be abnormal. It should be 14.4v I believe under
    normal operating conditions.

    If you have an AGM charger, or a charger that you can set to 4amps or less, try charging the 12v battery and see if it will
    take and hold a charge. It has been sitting for a while, while you have been doing all the work. A few hours at
    4 amps might be enough to bring up close to a full enough charge that you'll be able to clear all the codes
    and hopefully resolve the problems. If they battery is still good. And charging it overnight will put a full charge on it.
    And you can easily bring it in the house. :)


     
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  7. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    :ROFLMAO: I'll put it next to my pillow while I sleep :D
    I actually deleted the part about buying on Amazon as soon after, I remembered that I received it in the mail, but was online via O'Reilly not Amazon. I have located the receipt now also. There is an O'Reilly near my home. Might get them to take a look at it, and if they can confirm it's bad, it's well under warranty.
    By the way, you'll be happy to know that I lost some sleep thinking about some things you said. Haha. Not really. But did think about your comments on the Prolong system. I watched another video of a guy balancing/charging/discharging his batteries the way that I planned on doing it. He ran into all kinds of problems with his equipment and I think it took him 1-2 weeks to finally finish it. I can't be without my car that long. So I decided the cost of the Prolong and the time and money that it'll hopefully save me are worth it. So I bought it on Credit Card, the $479 budget option with light socket discharger. I'll just sell the other stuff that I bought locally, put it on EBay. Can probably get a little more than what I paid anyways. I'll still remove the battery this time, to load test each module. But the future charge/balance sessions should be much easier. So, thanks for getting that in my head (y) Will probably be a lot less hassle and time, and time is money, so probably works out in the end.
     
  8. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I'm sure the battery will feel safe and secure! :)

    I'm glad your found your receipt! And that you got it local. That helps a lot!

    I thought about getting the budget Prolong system. But after reading a few threads about those
    that got one years ago, It wouldn't be worth it for me. Trying to time it so I'm there when it is time
    to change the bulbs. Which are getting hard to find.... I'd stock up on them when you find them
    so you'll have them for future use.

    If you had a spare hybrid battery, or cells, you could do that. Then trying to get them balanced.
    It's a LOT of work. How much is your time worth?

    You always need to work around your budget. And a lot of the times it's tight!
    For me, and this is for me, If I'm going to spend $480 for it, the extra $180 is not that much more.
    The time I would not spend checking on it for the right voltage then switching bulbs, etc., is worth
    the extra money. Because it's a one time thing. Then plug it in, turn it on and walk away and come back
    a day or two, or three and it's done. I still have my van to drive. And I'd probably be able to plan it
    so I wouldn't need to drive much or far for a few days.

    Taking care of the 12v battery is the least expensive and easiest thing to do now. And that could
    resolve the major problem. Then driving more and longer could bring some life back in the hybrid
    battery so you wouldn't have to rush around charging it back up.
     
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  9. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Just an update....I had originally checked the 12V battery using the onscreen diagnostic menu on the Nav/radio system. Before taking the battery to get checked, I used a multimeter directly at the battery posts. Battery has 12.6V. Car is only seeing 11.4V based on diagnostic menu. Anybody heard of something like that before? I hooked up my OBDII and Torque app combo, and Torque is reading the battery at 14.2V in Ready mode, 12.4V in ACC mode. So I guess the onscreen diag menu reading can't be trusted?! If Torque is showing 14.2V, then that's what the ECU is seeing. So I guess all good there.

    I just remembered another detail. My sister borrowed my car one day a couple of months back, and her husband's 5.7L Nissan Titan V8 was dead as dead can be. And they used my Prius to jumpstart it! :( They didn't know that you shouldn't do that. The car seemed fine after that. But it was also around the time of all my 150K work. I'm not very electrically knowledgeable. Is there something that could have gotten damaged there that would cause the car to suddenly get poor mpg but run fine otherwise? Just throwing all possibilities out there.

    Next step will be reconditioning HV battery with Prolong system. But it might be 10 days before I have time to do it.
     
    #49 FriedCells, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  10. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    If anybody that gets 50mpg's+ in their Prius and has the Torque app feels like it, I'd be very curious what kind of readings that you get for certain things. There are so many options in the app, it's overwhelming. Trying to find something that can help determine if I have any issues with my OCC install. I made a quick video of me sitting still in my car, foot on brake, in drive, and pressing the gas pedal at varying degrees to see what kind of readings that I get for MAF, MAP, Inverter water pump, Air Flow Rate, etc. You can see that my Mass Air Flow ranges from about 3 gm/sec-8 gm/sec, Inverter water pump at a steady 3500 RPM's, Mass Air Pressure at 3-9 PSI, and AFR (Air Flow Rate) commanded and measured in the 14.5:1 range. No idea what is normal/ideal? In hindsight, I should have had a display for Engine RPM's as well to show how that corresponds....
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Yeah check your 12 volt independently, not with the dash display. At least with a multi meter, better to use electronic load tester.

    Battery retailers often have the latter and will check for free. Dealerships have them too, but likely charge for rests.

    You can DIY with something like Solar BA9.
     
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  12. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Thanks Mendel, as it's under warranty, I'll take it to O'Reilly's to have it tested.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Those testers will determine current CCA of the battery. Typically a new battery will have CCA well above spec, and continue to be higher through it's "healthy" life. If they measure CCA below spec, plus so-so-voltage, it's likely time. Was there a lot of down time for the car recently? That'll be tough on a battery, because there's always some loading on an installed battery.

    Our usage is getting less and less, under 5K kms per year. I keep ours on a smart charger, almost constantly, when it's just sitting, days on end. It's an Optima Yellow Top, passed 5 years old in September, and still in the pink. But without the charger I think it would not be in good shape by now.
     
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  14. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    @FriedCells curious if you have 'Accept conversations from...' allowed for members only, and if not can you please PM me.
     
  15. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Looked up what P0101 is. Better check if there's any leak in the intake path. That's a MAF code. Reminds me of smoke test to search for leaks. (Someone recommended to me on another forum)...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
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  16. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Sorry for delay. I was out of town until yesterday. I do have it set to accept messages from members only. I tried clicking on your profile to send you a message but it doesn't allow me to see your profile, therefore, I also can't PM you.
     
  17. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Thanks for the idea. I haven't had the code for a couple of months, but if it pops back up, I'll look into that.
     
  18. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Thanks, O'Reilly didn't even bother checking the battery. They just simply offered me a new one on warranty exchange. I think the guy at the counter just didn't want to deal with it. So I got a brand new Optima Yellow Top battery! Unfortunately, mpg's have not changed, and I've driven about 700 miles since the new battery as I just went on a road trip. I do drive my car regularly. Almost every day. Sometimes, maybe only 1 or 2 days without driving it in a week. I'm going to use the Prolong system starting today. I am leaning to believe that the HV battery is the culprit.....will update thread with progress
     
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  19. FriedCells

    FriedCells Junior Member

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    Just an update: Finished the battery reconditioning this morning, put battery back in car. Will need to drive it over the next week to see how are the mpg's now as well as a battery test with the Dr Prius app. Will update.
    Question: I bought 3 battery modules on EBay in case I would need them. I did not need any of them. I tested my current batteries and when I removed them from the car, every module was between 7.21V and 7.31V. Then I charged and balanced the pack. They were all between 8.22V and 8.25V. Then I load tested them, and they all stayed within .05V of each other even after the load test. So there weren't any obvious bad modules. So the question is, how can I keep the 3 modules that I bought healthy? Keep them on a trickle charger until I need them? I tried searching online for NiMh trickle charger, but mostly found for batteries that go in your remote or whatever, like AA batteries. Also, what Voltage should they be maintained at? Would I need 3 separate chargers or could I keep them charged in series? I can deal with electronics and the basics, but not an electrical guy. Thanks for any advice on this....
     
  20. wheezyglider

    wheezyglider Active Member

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    Just curious about the reconditioning process -- did it involve measuring the internal resistance of each cell?
     
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