Lots of codes - need wisdom

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Unirambler, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Hi all - I need some help deciphering exactly what is going on with my 2006 Prius. First, some background. The car has about 230,000 miles and I bought it about 15,000 miles ago. I have been driving it about 400 miles a week. I had the belt changed two weeks ago. No issues until yesterday. Doesn't even burn a quart of oil between oil changes. I have been averaging about 43.8 MPG.

    So, while my wife was driving it yesterday, the car gave a red triangle, the "VSC" light and the light with the exclamation point in it. She drove it home and it drove fine. I checked the codes with Torque Pro. I got the following:

    Codes thrown:
    P0441
    P1453
    P3190
    Codes pending:
    P0455
    P0A80
    P1451

    I cleared the codes and the car drove fine last night and this morning (~25 mile commute). When I left work, it seemed to have less pep, so I clicked the "Energy" button. The battery was at 1 bar. It began charging. By the time I stopped at a light, it was at 2 bars. However, as I sat at the light, it jumped up to green, all bars. As I drove it began dropping like normal. During the trip home, I saw a couple of times where it would jump up to full or down to one bar but then return to normal looking (for my car, the purple range). As I turned on to the last road after the highway, I got the triangle and lights again. This time, I used the Techtream software. I received the following codes:

    P1453
    P0441
    P0455
    P0A80
    P1451
    P3018
    P3000
    C1259
    C1310

    I did a check of the 12v battery and it was 12.3 unloaded, 11.9 with headlights, 11.8 with high beams, went back to 12.3 when load stopped. I know that is a little low, but don't believe that is the cause.
    Prius_voltages.jpg
    I have attached a screenshot from Torque of the voltages on the high voltage battery. While charging, module 8 did charge faster. When not charging, it dropped down faster. So, I can believe that there is an issue there. My question is, would that cause all of the codes above? If so, I can work on replacing the battery. However, if it is something else major or multiple issues, I need to re-think whether the car is worth it with so many miles on it.

    Also, as I was testing with Techstream, I noticed that it sounded like the car was missing a cylinder or something. Just wasn't running smoothly. Not sure if that is something new or has been happening for a while.

    Thanks for any insight you all can give!
     
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Sounds like a bad hybrid battery;).

    It could be a high voltage leak to ground as well, but something in the hybrid management system is telling you it isn’t happy :cool:.

    If you are not comfortable working around the battery, I’d look for a mechanic that is and see what they say(y).
     
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  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You've got a couple distinct groups of codes there. The P0441/0455/1451/1453 have to do with the evaporative emission control system, a bunch of pressure and vacuum hoses capturing fuel tank vapors to make sure they get burned in the engine. Malfunctions and leakage there can give you your engine-not-running-smoothly.

    The P0A80/3000/3018 pertain to the traction battery.

    Don't sweat the C1259 and C1310; those are codes from the brake ECU that will be set whenever it knows there are codes in the hybrid system. You already know about those, so these aren't telling you anything new.

    You've just got two areas of diagnosis to dig into, which the repair manual can help you do.
     
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  4. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Thanks! It seemed weird to me that the different areas would how up at the same time so I was worried that maybe it was something more major - like the main computer or something.

    I'll track down the info for troubleshooting it and see what I can fix. Hopefully I'll have a running car again soon with even better gas mileage!
     
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  5. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Well, I have another code. I decided to try the Prolong system before getting a new module for the battery. After the charge/discharge cycle, I received the red triangle again. Looking at the voltages, it definitely looks like module 8 needs to be replaced. However, when I checked the codes, I received a code P0A9B. Here is the data from Techstream:

    IMG_20190421_233609068.jpg

    So, is this just because of module 8 being bad or could there be something more going on?

    Thanks!
     
  6. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    P0A9B is to do with the hybrid battery temperature sensor circuit.

    Three battery temperature sensors are located on the bottom of the HV battery assembly. The resistance of the thermistor, which is enclosed in each battery temperature sensor, changes in accordance with the changes in the temperature of the HV battery assembly. The lower the battery temperature, the higher the resistance of the thermistor. Conversely, the higher the temperature, the lower the resistance.

    The battery ECU uses the battery temperature sensors to detect the temperature of the HV battery assembly. Based on the results of this detection, the battery ECU controls the battery blower assembly. (Thus, the blower fan starts when the HV battery temperature rises to a predetermined level.)

    DTC Detection Conditions:
    • Temperature detected by battery temperature sensors is lower than standard (open), or higher than standard (short) (1 trip detection logic)
    • Malfunction in battery temperature sensor characteristics (1 trip detection logic)
    Trouble Areas:
    • HV battery assembly (HV battery temperature sensor)
    • Battery ECU
    The work up for P0A9B is here: DTC P0A9B - Hybrid Battery Temperature Sensor Circuit

    Hope that helps.
     
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  7. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Thanks, @dolj! That is very helpful. I'm not sure why it was set since according to the documentation you gave, the values need to be outside of -49F - 203F and according to Techstream, they are: TB1: 134.1F, TB2: 163.2F, TB3: 127.2F. But, I will be replacing module 8 today or tomorrow and will perform the checks they mentioned. I have a dead Prius also, so I can replace the thermistors and harness if necessary.
     
  8. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Thanks for providing a posting that included error codes.
    Makes the diagnostic that much more focused.
    A red triangle can mean so many things.

    With the codes it is so much easier to hone in and save everyone some diagnostic time.

    Looking forward to hearing the outcome.
     
  9. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Ok, I got the battery opened and have some more questions. :)

    How do I tell the age of the battery (manufacturing date)? Here is a photo of the numbers from the top of the case:
    HV_batt_numbers.jpg

    The modules in the battery are numbers:
    28XE9A00039A
    28XE9A00044A - 28XE9A00054A
    28XE9A00057A - 28XE9A00066A
    28XE9A00113A - 28XE9A00117A
    27XENA07753A

    I am assuming that the 27XE module had been replaced at some point but the rest are probably original, correct?

    Here are some shots of the bus bars and connections:
    HV_batt_connectors_4.jpg HV_batt_connectors_3.jpg HV_batt_connectors_2.jpg HV_batt_connectors_1.jpg

    According to the guy I bought it from about 6 months ago, he had cleaned all of the bus bars, etc. Does that look like it is possible to get that much corrosion in 6 months (in Southern Indiana, running about 400 miles/week since we got it)? Could this corrosion be causing the codes I am seeing in the above posts - at least the HV battery ones?

    Since we need a dependable car, I have decided to buy the new battery modules from NewPriusBatteries instead of playing whack-a-mole. Hopefully I'll get them soon and can get the car going again.

    Also, doing the test on the hidden menu for the aux battery, the battery was at 12V no load and dropped to 11.6V with high beams on. I know that means it needs to be replaced. Could that be causing any of the issues in previous posts? Guess I'll find out once I replace the battery. :)

    Thanks for all your help guys. I am learning a ton as I go, which will help as I am contemplating getting the other Prius I have running using the removed modules form this Prius that are good. :)
     
  10. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Hmm. Actually I found a thread with the info necessary to tell the dates on the cells. It looks like they are all from the same pack, manufactured on 10/27/2003 or 10/28/2003. The case has a date of 11/7/2003, so it appears that it is all original. However, two questions come from that -
    1) why is a battery from 2003 in a 2006 Prius? and
    2) The info says that the first digit on the case sticker gives the model the battery was made for with "F" being Prius. Mine has "H". What model is that for?
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That would be the "range check" condition ...

    There is also a "rationality" condition ( :) ), triggered if the maximum temperature minus the minimum temperature (coming to 36 Fahrenheit degrees in your case) exceeds "the standard level", which isn't exactly shown in the manual, but I guess we can infer it's less than 36 Fahrenheit degrees.

    Looks like you might have some modules running extra hot near the middle of the pack, if there isn't something wrong with the sensors.
     
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  12. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    why is a battery from 2003 in a 2006 Prius?

    That is one of the easiest questions ever.

    Because it's not original. The 2006 was apparently replaced by a battery from a early/mid year 2004.
     
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  13. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    :) Yep, I guess that makes sense. I must have been too tired when I made that statement.
     
  14. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    Ahh. Rationality. If only there was more of that in this world! :)

    Thank you for explaining that. Also, since module 8 is the failing one, maybe the hot temperature is coming from there. I'll find out when I get the battery pack apart.
     
  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    There is not necessarily a hot temperature. The code is saying that sensor is out of range or there is a malfunction in battery temperature sensor. It could also be wiring or connectors worst case scenario a fault in the ECU.
     
    #15 dolj, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well put, although we've seen that the code was set not on the "out of range" condition, but on the "rationality" condition (that is, the lack of consistency between the three readings).

    A trouble code that questions a sensor reading can never on its own tell you whether the sensor has a problem or the measured value is actually weird, because the ECU has no way to tell those cases apart.

    One way to check would be to use Techstream's live-data monitor starting when the car has been off for many hours, and only putting it in ON, not READY. Do all three sensors show close to ambient temperature then? After putting the car in READY and using it, do the readings rise by different amounts? That behavior would indicate the sensors are telling you something real. If the readings are wacky even when the battery is stone cold, that would indicate sensor problems.

    There was that other famous story about the difficulty of deciding whether a sensor is flaky or the weird values are real (or the other sensor you're using to sanity-check the weird values is the one that's in error!).
     
    #16 ChapmanF, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  17. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    @dolj and @ChapmanF, thank you both. I am in the process of ripping the battery apart to install new cells. While it is apart, I will check the sensors and wiring. Once together, I'll do the test you recommend and put the car in On and check the values before making it Ready.
     
  18. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Interesting to see the corrosion.
    There can definitely be more corrosion after someone did their DIY cleaning instead of replacing.
    But hey, they saved money, right?

    Would be interesting if other folks who did their own cleaning to share their results 6 months or a year down the line.
     
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  19. Unirambler

    Unirambler New Member

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    @ericbecky Really? This much corrosion? Wow. I wouldn't have believed that was possible in 6 months.

    I am currently looking at getting bus bars and nuts for rebuilding the battery on my other Prius. Is it better to get nickel-plated ones? I have found some on ebay, but not sure if they are good quality or not.

    Thanks!
     
  20. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    It would be interesting if you could really get straight info from the previous guy.
    Not to call him out or be accusatory, but to genuinely learn effects of "cleaning".
    What chemicals did he use? Did he just brush it on? Did he put everything in a bucket for a couple days? Did he put some sort of protectant over everything afterwards etc.

    Carefully inspect all aspects of your wireframe, especially the sensing wires.
    That negative cable looks kinda sketchy. I wonder if there is corrosion underneath the sheathing. If so how far down the cable does it penetrate.

    Take a close look at the orange connector at the HV computer. Unplug it and inspect the pins. Look for signs of corrosion on the pins. If there is corrosion, remove the computer and make sure it has not penetrated the board. If there is corrosion on the connector, then I'd be suspect of possible corrosion in the voltage sensing wires as well.

    Replacing the voltage sensing wire frame is $150-$200 if I remember correctly.
    Does not include replacement nuts.
     
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