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Low Voltage in Rear Power Outlet

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by PiPLosAngeles, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    That's a good idea. Maybe you can borrow one.
     
  2. SteveMucc

    SteveMucc Active Member

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    ok, so now that it's no longer an outlet issue i'd take it back to Toyota and have them look at it again. my car definitely does not dim when thrown into gear.

    I'd make a stink that you're worried that the voltage dropout would be enough to cause the computers to shut-off and result in an accident. If you imply that it's a hazard you might try invoking the lemon law. time to smell up the place.
     
  3. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    It looks like the AutoZone store at 1515 N. Alvarado Street in Los Angeles, for example, still has their DuraLast H4-DL battery—their aftermarket replacement for the Chevrolet Spark—in stock. I’ve written about it before (post #4, post #10 in September; post #22 in March). I can’t absolutely confirm that it’s identical to the original without having seen one firsthand, but if I needed a replacement battery for my car today, this is where I’d start.

    Be sure to keep the old battery and receipt, of course, and submit them to your Toyota dealer—you may have a valid reimbursement claim under the Emergency Repairs provision of the warranty, described in the Warranty & Maintenance Guide (PDF) on page 34.
     
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  4. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Called Toyota this morning since I hadn't heard from them in almost two weeks.They said the battery is still on national backorder and that some people have been waiting for more than three months. They continue to offer no resolution at all, and they are strangely completely adamant that they will NOT pull a good battery from a Prime on their lot. I just finished filing the forms to initiate California's Lemon Law process. We'll see what happens.
     
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  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    WOW!!! What are those people with new cars they can't drive doing, I wonder? That's completely inexcusable.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Just read through the early parts of this thread again, trying to remind myself why everything is stalled waiting for a 12 volt battery.

    I honestly don't see anything in the reported symptoms that would have made me think battery, and there seem to be plenty of leads already mentioned that could easily be followed up whether or not the battery is replaced.

    Two key observations were way back in #5: (1) adding a 6 A load at the power outlet drops the voltage there by 2.8 volts (seventeen watts are getting lost on the way to the power outlet? that might be enough even to make something noticeably warm), and (2) the system voltage seeming to decrease by a volt when shifting to D.

    (1), especially, should be straightforward to investigate. I would look at the wiring diagram for what connectors/fuses are in that circuit on the way back to the converter, take voltage measurements at each in turn (while the 6 A load is being drawn from the power outlet), and see if there's any one spot where the lion's share of the 2.8 V gets lost.

    Those are straightforward things to check, they are the first checks that would be indicated by the symptoms reported, and it seems to me that if the dealership isn't doing them, but is instead waiting for a mythical backordered battery before they think they can test anything (because it "failed a load test?" it's not under load in the conditions reported here), they are really more interested in swapping some parts than troubleshooting a problem.

    I'm not sure how far a lemon-law claim would go if the basis is a long wait for a battery, if it's not clear the battery's even related to the problem. On the other hand, if the basis of the claim is just the length of time the dealer has gone without progress solving the problem, well, I guess that'd qualify.
     
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  7. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    If it is the battery, all I can figure (and hope) is that a wacky battery could play havoc on sensors designed to control the current/voltage of the 12V system while the DC-to-DC converter is engaged. The dealership where I purchased the car claims the tech spent most of the day my car was there working with Toyota to get technical assistance on the issue and that the battery is where they stopped in the troubleshooting process. They don't appear to be willing to go any further until that's ruled out. The other dealership was wholly unwilling to even investigate the issue at all, informing me about the voltage drop: "that's how electricity works." They wouldn't even load test the battery. They just tested the voltage and saw that it was 12.1V and called it a day.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    have i asked if you called customer care?
     
  9. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I did a week after the dealer visit. They told me the same story - that there are no batteries available and there's nothing they can do. The case manager promises to call back on a weekly basis with a status update, but he doesn't. I have to call them every week or two to check in. It was them I spoke with today. I can't for the life of me figure out why:

    1. For over a month there are no OEM batteries for these cars available anywhere in the United States, and

    2. Why they're not willing to pull the battery from a car on the lot, even just to test if that's the problem.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    brutal company
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    which is, being translated, probably "this is the story we'll use instead of saying we don't know how to troubleshoot for this problem, until you get bored and take the car back, or do something more drastic like trade it for another."

    People who have good chops for diagnosis generally have a range of career options more rewarding than auto dealer tech, so sometimes the dealer really is just doing the best they can with who they can get. This is the sort of an issue that might be faster and more positively DIYed, if you have some electrical knowledge and the wiring diagram, compared to waiting for a dealer to assign someone who can figure it out.

    Maybe, also, your friendly independent auto electrical shop will have people more motivated to dig in.

    Will the dealer let you measure the voltage drop under 6 A load at the power outlet, in one of those Primes on the lot that they won't pull a battery from? That would at least help distinguish whether you've got a sample issue or a design issue.

    I'm guessing a lemon claim would culminate in you returning the car, right? Then you'd be car shopping again. Is it worth that? If it were me, I think I'd take my own crack at the troubleshooting, before going through that hassle.
     
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Assuming the customer is not a total jerk (and it sounds like you've been very patient), there are two ways a business can choose to impress a customer. This is not the one I would choose. If they cared about you and their reputation, they would bring in whatever or whoever they need in order to make this right. All these great troubleshooting ideas in this thread and the dealer won't lift a finger? WOW!
     
  13. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I always take pains to be polite and courteous, even if I feel like doing otherwise. I don't call every day, or threaten to "Yelp!" them if they don't give me what I want. You know the type. I try not to be that guy. I just limit my calls to once a week and ask the status. When they tell me there's still no battery available I just ask them if they have any other ideas to help me out while I wait. I'm not perfect by any stretch. Sometimes I lose my patience and throw in a comment like, "perhaps my trust in Toyota was misplaced" after they tell me how Toyota is committed to excellent customer service, all while still not being willing to do much.
     
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  14. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Honestly, I don't expect it to go that far. My hope was that bean counters would determine it was faster and cheaper to fix the car than it would be to negotiate the arbitration process and potential appeals.
     
  15. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Toyota corporate just called. The case manager, George Chavez, informed me that because of the short supply of 12V batteries, and the fact that my car still turns on, the order for a 12V battery from my dealership was cancelled. They will not replace the battery until AFTER my car is disabled by a defective battery.

    I am glad I moved forward with arbitration.

    I'm thinking I may just replace the battery with an aftermarket one and send Toyota a bill. If they don't pay I'll put them in small claims, where they can't send an attorney, and they'll have to rebut the testing from their own dealership in order to prevail.
     
    #75 PiPLosAngeles, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  17. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    It does seem strange. Why would Toyota be willing to go through so much trouble just to avoid replacing a $150 battery? Even if they're in short supply, you'd think it would be easier to yank one from a car on the lot and wait for the replacement. If the car on the lot goes dead it doesn't hurt anyone, as opposed to letting your customer risk being stranded by their brand new car.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    have you talked to the dealership since?
     
  19. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    I'm actually on hold with them right now. Waiting for the service department to pick up. It will be interesting to see what the service advisor says.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    indeed, the decision makes their diagnosis look foolish