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Lugs Tightened to Different Torque On the Same Wheel?!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by LakeMichBoatGuy, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. LakeMichBoatGuy

    LakeMichBoatGuy Junior Member

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    Happy Holidays. And sorry for such a seemingly-dumb question. I did read the previous posts, but didn't see this specific situation. - We have a 2013 Prius Plug In Base with the factory (Plug-In specific) 15" aluminum wheels. 40k miles. Fabulous vehicle. We are car-enthusiasts (not just Prius), and we maintain our vehicles in a fastidious manner. We just switched over to the winter (Nokian WRG2) tires for the season, mounted on the factory wheels. Our (normally very good) private tire shop used the air gun on low to put on the lug nuts, then hand-torqued them up to the factory recommended 76lbft, in my presence. All good. I went back a few days later to re-check torque, before a long trip tomorrow. I told him 76lbft. Unfortunately, I didn't take the wrench away from the moron, and actually check the setting myself. He way over torqued 2 or 3 lugs on the passenger side front wheel before I (visually) realized what was happening, and stopped him. All other wheels we re-checked at 76lbft, no problem. But now we have one wheel with 2-3 lugs at 76lbft. And 2-3 lugs on the same wheel at some unknown higher torque. I asked the moron to back off all 5 lugs, and properly retorque all to 76lbft, which ...seemed...to be the obvious solution, to a relatively non-mechanical guy. But he didn't want to do that for some reason, said it was unnecessary. Is there some risk? What's the correct play here? We do things right regarding our vehicles. We don't gamble, or guess, or hope it's OK. And as such, we never experience vehicle problems or surprises. I've been with PriusChat since 2007 (07 Touring #6 at that time), and I know many members fuss, and borderline obsess about their vehicles...and can point us the right direction. Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    And you pay this guy? Time to get a floor jack, safety stands and some tools. :rolleyes:

    Are you swapping between snow tires and OEM all seasons on the factory rims? Then you're kinda screwed, for DIY.
     
    #2 Mendel Leisk, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Harbor Freight is selling click-stop torque wrenches for $12 this week (through 11/30), with a website coupon. :)

    If you want a different quality level, I strongly suspect the other vendors will be having deals too.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've never torqued my lugs, is it important? i can see not over tightening with a gun, but i just snug them down with a lug wrench.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    If you put some weight into it, but don't go nuts (no pun intended), you're probably close. But for lug nuts, get a 1/2" drive for $20~30, it'll last forever. Torque them in a star pattern, and when done back off the torque wrench setting to 10 lb/ft, before putting it away. They don't like to be left on a high value, or completely loose.

    Honda sedans and hatchbacks over the years, always said 80, Toyota says 76 for the Prius, that's what I use.

    Our daughter's Pilot says 94, typically more for trucks I guess.
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    A previous car of mine was susceptible to brake disc warp, and other folks with the same model and problem claimed that uneven lug torque was an issue. Once I obtained and used a torque wrench, the problem vanished for the remaining life of the car (many years).

    This isn't proof, just correlation. And even if correct, it doesn't necessarily apply to all vehicles, especially those with robust brake disks. But I do it anyway.
     
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  7. LakeMichBoatGuy

    LakeMichBoatGuy Junior Member

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    I appreciate all the help and comments. In case this helps someone else with a similar issue in the future:

    An experienced certified Toyota tech said to return to the offending shop. One at a time, have them remove a lug from the unevenly torqued wheel. And then...I, the customer...should put the lug all the way back on by hand, even on - off - on, if necessary, and that the experience should be silky smooth, with zero resistance or sticking. If there is any sticking at all (assuming the threads are clean), the threads have been compromised, and the lug nut and stud need to be replaced (I don't know if this can be done individually, or if it's an assembly). If all is fine, as it was for me thankfully, simply retorque to 76, and that's it. Maybe recheck torque after 100 miles, or an hour of driving.

    The tech said that over torqued, or unevenly torqued lugs can damage wheels, damage threads as mentioned, and even bend/warp brake rotors. Also, excess torque can make a roadside tire change impossible, using the short lug wrench tool provided with Prius (Plug In Prius comes with no spare at all...had to buy one). And if the threads get damaged, the lug can get stripped on (stuck), or stripped off (can't be reinstalled). If this happens roadside, you might not be able to install a spare at all. Factor in this potentially happening in bad weather, bad area, late at night, dangerous part of the roadway, etc...and it's not worth this easily avoidable risk.

    Just passing on some info.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.
     
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  8. NutzAboutBolts

    NutzAboutBolts Senior Member

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    Over torquing lug nuts can warp your rotors. Replacing the stud is easy if its stripped, you can buy individual studs to replace them. Torque specs I always torque to is 80 ft. lbs, 76 ft. lbs is fine also. Trucks has a different torque specs on wheel lug nuts.

    All in all, everyone's answers are correct. :) good work!
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my papi taught me to loosen each lug a little at a time, alternating lugs, and reverse when installing. does this still apply? if ever?
     
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  10. NutzAboutBolts

    NutzAboutBolts Senior Member

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    I would break loose the lug nut while the wheels are on the floor then jack up the vehicle to remove the lug nuts. Then when torquing the lug nuts, you torque it in a star pattern to even out the torque on each nuts or else one side will have more torque than the other and can cause the rotors to warp.
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thank you!
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I've heard too, with locking nuts: loosen them first, and torque them last. That can require some real mental aerobics, when deciding where to start the star torquing pattern.

    You should do final torque with the wheel back on the ground, kinda the inverse of the initial loosening. I figure leave the parking brake off too, not sure about that tho, just my thing.

    I watched a Costco tire installer doing that final torque once, no star pattern for him: just 'round in order. Not good.
     
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  13. GaryD1

    GaryD1 Active Member

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    I been doing it wrong 50 years I recon, don't torque
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it would be interesting to put a torque wrench on one of mine to see where it's at, just for funsies.
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That might be possible, but kind of unorthodox use for a torque wrench: it's more for applying torque, not measuring a previously torqued bolt. You could set it, say to 76 lb, then see if you can loosen a bolt, without it clicking. If it breaks loose without clicking it maybe indicates you've under torqued a bit.
     
  16. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    You're the paying customer. If that's what you wanted? That's what should of been done.

    Without using the term "Moron"...I might return to the shop and demand it be done the way YOU want it, and to the spec's Toyota recommends. The way it was initially done.