Lutz says fuel economy regulations will add 5K to price

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Chuck., Apr 19, 2013.

  1. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Ex-GM exec Lutz says fuel economy regulations will add 5K to cost of cars | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    In 2025, cars have to get 54.5mpg - about 40mpg real world.

    Today, real world mpg is 15-20mpg (considerably higher at PC)

    If you go from a 20mpg to a 40mpg car, driving 15,000 miles at $4.00 gas, over five years you will save $7,500.

    My guess is in 2025 gas will be at least $6.00 a gallon so the savings will be $11,250.

    The gas saving will easily make up for the worst case estimates Lutz makes.
     
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  2. nklb

    nklb Member

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    'rolling suppository - shape aerodynamic appliances'

    It would NOT be fun to get rear-ended by one of those things!
     
  3. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I'm listening to complaints instead of listening to how will they comply with the resolutions in a more effective way.
    This will sound already to another goverment bailout for GM
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it will be expensive to make a 50 mpg suburban, but cheap to make a 50 mpg prius. who cares? suburban moms can afford it.;)
     
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  5. rjdriver

    rjdriver Active Member

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    While the know how and technology are there for small and medium size cars, bisco's comment on the Suburban is telling. Vehicles like that and large pickups may never get above 50 mpg. Not and do the job they were made for. Not with current fuels or technology, and at a price anyone can afford.

    And in order for any car maker that has larger vehicles in their line to get an average of 54.5 mpg in total fleet sales, the smaller cars will have to be in the 70s and above to balance out the large SUVs and trucks that are still getting in the 20s or maybe 30s at best. We will probably see the introduction of gas/electric hybrid and maybe diesel/electric hybrid trucks as they try to comply, but I suspect the lobbying by the auto manufacturers to get this deadline moved out, or the average mpg lowered, will be fierce in the coming years.
     
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  6. kgall

    kgall Active Member

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    Being a form-follows-function kind of guy, always being ready to accept whatever look actually makes a tool work better,
    I say, go for it.
     
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  7. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    He's always been a gearhead and his work on the Volt not withstanding, not really into fuel economy.

    Probably factors into why he is out at GM to a degree.
     
  8. kabin

    kabin Member

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    Lutz is a spin doctor. Whatever he's involved in is the best and nothing else should make sense to the consumer. Today it's electric pickups.
     
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  9. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    The World According to Lutz should be the next Michael Moore documentary.
     
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  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Let us remember

    Bob Lutz - fought higher cafe standards saying that GM knew what car buyers wanted SUVs, not efficient cars

    GM goes bankrupt because it did not have efficient cars that people wanted.

    Now what does Bob Lutz say (from the link)


    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130418/AUTO01/304180447#ixzz2R14tXcmI


    To which I say, yes, new standards might add $5000 to your $200,000 car. It won't add a penny to the prius, c-max, fusion hybrid, camry hybrid, etc. It will likely drop those costs.

    The other part?

    IMHO more aerodynmics will be good, and aerodynamic cars often look better. Lightweight materials like high strength steel. That is a win too.





    Well higher gas tax sure that is a good idea too, to go along with not in place of cafe standards. we don't need our taxes as high as europe though, and it sure would be nice if the gas tax didn't get all spent, but some was used in place of other taxes we have now.
     
  11. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Bob Lutz Says Ditch CAFE, Raise Gas Taxes $0.25 USD Per Year,
    And that would send Prius sales through the roof!
    .
     
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  12. Dogwood2

    Dogwood2 Member

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    Convert a Yaris to a Prius C and the base price rises from $14,000 to $19,000. Yep, that's a $5000 increase.

    The questions of what we get for that added expense, or whether it should be commanded that such cars be built, are complicated. For a person that doesn't drive much but needs access to a car, it may be false economy to pay the premium price. And of course the higher price will preclude some buyers from entering the market in the first place.

    Messy questions. Personally I'd rather choose for myself rather than be told what to buy by the smart boys in Washington.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    We actually did the experiment:
    • 2001 - bought a new Echo for my wife, $14,250, with as many of the options she wanted to match the $21,000 Prius we had rented for test driving. The Prius did not have cruise control, hideous green, and in-car GPS, deal killers.
    • 2005 - lost Camry, our cross-country car, and bought a used 2003 Prius, $17,000, black, cruise control, no in-car GPS. Currently has an after-market review mirror with backup camera, GPS, and bluetooth.
    • 2009 - sold Echo with 30,000 miles for $3,000 and happy to get rid of it. Used money to buy a new, 1.8L 2010 Prius, $24,000. The ZVW30 became our cross-country car and errands. Silver color, electric everything, bluetooth, no in-car GPS (using a Garmin.)
    Both cars are getting 52 MPG which means we don't really have to choose between gas to get home or a good meal and gas to get home.

    Perhaps folks on a fixed income might find fuel prices something that impacts their grocery list.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  15. ChipL

    ChipL Active Member

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    We need to change the concept of cheap gas here in the US.

    I look at Iceland, where gas is more than double here in the US. Mass transit is much like what we see in most major US cities - OK but not great.... Small cars are the rule, though those that can afford SUV's and trucks have them....
     
  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    But the regulations don't mandate that you do that at all. The versa gets 35 mpg, which when converted up to cafe and thought of with the other incentives (credits for leaf) already would be fine to sell as is in 2025. Though Nissan will likely improve the engine efficiency by then to be something like skyactiv 1.3L or ecoboost 1L, that should not add more than $500 to the cost. Toyota can't stick with an ancient 4 speed automatic transmission like they do, but this is 2025. You would think they would have a cvt or at least a 6 speed in these cars to raise mpg.

    We also expect that that hybrid parts in the prius c, will drop in price by 2025.

    Well yes, but the new standards mainly will add the high costs to SUVs and performance cars.

    It is not as if GM when it successfully campaigned to keep cafe low, actually built the cars americans wanted. They went bankrupt, partially because they did not have efficient cars available.

    I don't trust those smart boyz in washington or detroit. We don't have a competitive system. We have 9 large companies, and they get bailed out when they make the wrong choices. We all payed for the GM and Chyrsler bailouts (and wall street even more), and we pay for a less efficient fleet with our economic security tied to Opec politics. Its not as if we have not all seen this before.

    Lutz wants to make an inefficient $200,000 luxury sports car, and the rules say if he is sucessfull he will need to pay fines for it being a big V8 with little passenger room. I say the buyers can afford to pay this extra tax.
     
  17. jonb505

    jonb505 Member

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    Appears my prius v will not be the outdated gas guzzler i thought it would be by 2025, if the automakers reach those lofty goals my 12 year old v will still be just ahead of the average when 2025 rolls around, yay! :)

    And gas already at roughly 5.20 a gallon here in vancouver "right now", does that mean 10 a gallon for us canucks by 2025? :eek:
     
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  18. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Why is this thread even bothering listening to such a dinosaur?

    DBCassidy
     
  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Easier said than done, ChipL. You can see what direction we went with higher gaso taxes in Virginia, we reduced them to the lowest level of state gaso taxes in the continental USA.
     
  20. xpcman

    xpcman Senior Member

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    There are about 250 miles of paved roads in Iceland. :)
     
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