Mac vs Windows

I switched to an iMac close to two years ago, and I think it's great. It's an elegant all-in-one solution that works well for both home and business. I have a few issues with the windows-on-a-mac thing, but these are apparently resolved with the newer generation. Go play some more, and ask all the questions you can think of. I don't recall you saying - are you looking for a laptop or a desktop?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Sep 20 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]515552[/snapback]</div>

I bought a new PC with VISTA Home Premium on July 1, and the first three weeks I would have agreed with you heartily. It crashed every few days, sometimes taking several hours to go through 'Windows is attempting to recover'. Some of the crashes seemed to be video-related - the PC would suddenly tell me it couldn't run the graphics on the screensaver, and it would go into that 'problem solving' mode on reboot. Other times it would go into that mode on a reboot after a Windows system update to Vista.

I've switched my screensaver to 'blank', and I've also started rebooting routinely into 'safe' mode, then rebooting regularly (it doesn't take long - even with the two 'boots' I'm back and running more quickly than I am with my two 3+ year old XP machines), and I've only had 1 time in the past 9 weeks that it went into that 'problem solving' mode on a reboot, and I think that was a time that I forgot to reboot into 'safe' mode first.
So I don't know if VISTA's updates have corrected a lot of problems, or if my change in screensaver and rebooting into safe mode have made the difference.

But if you get a PC, it's really the newer processors and more memory that make it so much faster than an old PC, and it's difficult to find a new PC that comes with XP rather than Vista, unless you have someone 'custom-build' you a PC to order. Dell still has some PCs that you can buy with XP, but HP, Gateway. Acer and e-Machines don't.

One of my concerns when I was buying a new computer was how much money I'd have to spend to upgrade software for the new machine. So far, I've spent $10 to buy upgrades to three applications to run with Vista, and another $140 at a computer show to buy a legal, non-academic copy of Office 2007 to replace my old Office 2000, so it wasn't too bad an expense on top of the $800 (including tax) that I paid for a new PC with lots of memory and hard drive and a dual-core processor. I'm under the impression that the cost of a new iMac plus software would be considerably more, so I never seriously looked at switching to an Apple.

Happy shopping, BarbaraM!

 

a properly managed PC isn't a lot of work like some claim it is, but you do have to know how to dig in and push the crap out of your startups and such to keep it efficient. i'm guessing the mac is more people-friendly from what i'm hearing. i've never done extensive work with one, it took me a couple days to mentally second-nature the very simple logic on my ipod... i guess i don't have mac logic.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 21 2007, 10:12 AM) [snapback]515775[/snapback]</div>

Ditto for what galaxee says, but what others have mentioned, it's a matter of personal preference and what you will be doing with it. For general surfing, word processing, etc. a Mac is just fine, if on the other hand you like to get into the guts of the machine (like me), IMO the PC is the way to go, the Mac is a very functional and attractive machine to set up and use, but if you want to upgrade a piece, say add the blueray or hddvd burner, you're stuck with something on a USB cable. But again it's all a matter of personal preference.

 

Part of the switch is unlearning old pc habits. I still use both a mac and a pc daily, and I much prefer the mac. Sometimes it's too simple, but it makes perfect sense once you get it. Be careful when looking at prices to compare Apples to...uh never mind, I'm sure you've heard that one. Anyway, there's lots of stuff on the mac, like a built in camera and microphone, that would cost extra on a pc and involve yet more wires. There's lots of stuff not on a mac, too, like viruses....it's only fair to factor in something for that, too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 21 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]515775[/snapback]</div>

Which is not the problem of the PC, it's a problem with windows.

Most any programmer can tell you that the problem with windows is it's legacy support. But Microsoft, unlike apple, doesn't know when to cut the cord. They drew a line between OS9 and OSX, and it was a very wise thing to do.

So going back to the startup, you can have something in your startup folder. You can have something running as a service. You can have items launch from the registry. And so on. Hell, maybe you can still launch things from win.ini... who knows. Finding something that's insidiously embedded inside of windows can be a real pain in the nice person at times. It's just the nature of the beast.

It's also part of the reason Windows is just so big and bloated... it supports a lot of APIs... I think Vista still supports Win16! And undoubtedly this is one of the reasons MSFT has been so successful, but in the end, it's also the reason their software is as unstable as it is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Sep 21 2007, 01:12 AM) [snapback]515660[/snapback]</div>

My problems with Vista are the lack of drivers for third party products that I have already purchased for XP systems and don't see a need to replace just to be able to move to Vista. There is also Vista's voracious appetite for memory, which pretty much will require scrapping existing systems that were purchased 1-2 years ago in order to move to Vista. Oh, and there is no support yet available (specific example of no drivers for third party products) for my wireless broadband card in Vista....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Sep 21 2007, 01:12 AM) [snapback]515660[/snapback]</div>

I have a Sony VAIO T series notebook (the one with the 11 inch wide screen that weighs around 3 lbs) and from the time the power button is pressed, to when it has completed loading Norton IS and Webroot SpySweeper and I can then launch my broadband wireless card, it is at least 5 minutes (more like 10). I have run all manner of diagnostic software and every test comes back with no faults. I also have 1 Gb of RAM installed, so I am not running into a memory cap either. And this is with XP Pro.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jeannie @ Sep 21 2007, 08:10 AM) [snapback]515773[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying that you have to boot into Safe mode every time you start up? If so, Microsoft should give you an award for most patient user. I would never put up with that requirement!

 

If you are looking to buy from the LEAST environmentally friendly computer company, get a Mac - otherwise get a Lenovo PC. See here.

Beyond that, get what suits your needs. I like macs but have not used one much since the late-90s. In my opinion, the days in which there was a vast difference between macs and pcs is long gone which is why I switched to PCs in the late-90s. Both do an adequate job. For my use - I need a PC because I work in a business environment where the mac will not support a number of applications.

I suspect macs are better at video editing and graphics applications; pcs for gaming and business apps. I hear that the mac OS is pretty stable. I find XP to be stable too. It can take a while to load, but it depends on how many applications you have on your machine as well as I think the amount of memory. My wife's PC has fewer apps and loads much more quickly than mine - usually in about 30 seconds.

I definitely wouldn't go with Vista though - at least not yet. If you buy a new PC my understanding is that you can still request it be loaded with XP. I would definitely request XP.

 

Problem with a lot of these retail Windows PCs is that they come with all that extra crap installed on it.. That's the reason why they are so slow.

Some of the bundled software are simply atrocious-- Norton Antivirus for instance is a bloated resource hog that will slow your computer to a crawl, and causes more problems than the viruses it's supposed to protect you against. You are better off ditching this bundled crap and install some other antivirus package like AVG or NOD32.

Best thing to do with a slow-running retail PC is to back up all your data onto an external drive, then wipe out the HDD and do a clean reinstall of Windows so it's not burdened by all the prebundled garbage software.

I have no doubt that if I had all that extra prebundled crap installed on the Windows XP on my Macbook, it would be slow too. (Fortunately I don't, since I had to install WinXP myself on my Macbook through Bootcamp). B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Sep 21 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]515826[/snapback]</div>

It varies by manufacturer (whether they will install XP instead of Vista). Sony won't; Dell has some machines that they will install XP on at your request.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Sep 21 2007, 11:28 AM) [snapback]515826[/snapback]</div>

Your source is...?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Sep 21 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]515865[/snapback]</div>

Greenpeace. Unfortunately.

 

Wish i had a link, but this was a big stink back 2-3 years ago. Some organization went through product lineups and determined the environmental impact of the computers, finding that Apple was the worst.

However, since then Apple's done a lot to improve their environmental impact, and are committed to the process.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Sep 21 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]515870[/snapback]</div>

Since I was the one to originally raise the issue, I will post this that I also found - which not surprisingly reflects more poorly on Greenpeace than on Apple:

"So if you're evaluating an Apple purchase versus another computer product based on the haranguing that Apple is receiving from Greenpeace, don't be fooled. Apple's no more or less evil than any other computer manufacturer. And while it's one thing to call attention to a problem that an entire industry needs to address, Greenpeace's methodologies, in this particular case, don't paint an accurate picture.

There's a right way and wrong way to respond to these concerns, and the wrong way would to be cave in to rhetorical bullying by a political action group that's well-known for creating drama where there is none."

See link.

So if you want that Mac, go right ahead. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 21 2007, 12:24 PM) [snapback]515823[/snapback]</div>

I'm booting into safe mode whenever I reboot my new computer, but I run it pretty much 24/7 and reboot every 3-4 days ('m running 'folding@home', a distributed computing project out of Sanford University that's doing basic research in protein folding in order to find cures for many diseases).

My two old XP machines take about 2 minutes to get to the point that I can do anything after I power-up the machines. With the new one, I can boot into safe mode, then reboot regularly, and start working within that 2 minute time frame, so it doesn't take extraordinary patience.

 

After working with mainframes and "IBM" whatevers, I have used a Mac since 1984. There are many reasons for using a Mac, including:

1. More cost-effective (time and money)
2. UNIX-based (solid)
3. Automatic weekly software updates
4. Command uniformity across applications
5. Virtually no viruses or trojan horses
6. Great graphics
7. Integrated applications (iWork 08, iLife08, MS-Office, Adobe).
8. God is in the details.
9. When something does not work there is an easy way to back out, identify and fix the problem (usually it is not the Mac that is the problem)
10. I can run UNIX, Mac, Linux or Wintel on my Mac

I've completed several very complex science analysis projects on Macs (Climatic Water Budget Analysis including precipitation, evapotranspiration, soils, net primary productivity). A a senior scientist I have traveled the world with a Mac (Russia, Europe, US, S. America) - works first time all the time.

Wintel = imitation Mac

 

This is by far the most civil Mac v. Windows thread I have ever seen, bar none! Yet another reason I love Prius Chat!

I would strongly advise looking at the Mac. I run Windows, Linux, and Solaris at work, Mac at home. The Mac is plenty capable of anything I've ever wanted to do, without the headaches I go through on a daily basis at my day job. Not that there are never problems in Macland, they're just a lot fewer and far between. I run a 17" Macbook Pro as my daily machine, have our old eMac running as a print/mp3/photo/video server, use our G3 iBook for websurfing and as a universal home theater remote control, and finally had to give away our 1996 vintage PowerMac 7500 bacause it just wouldn't die.

I think its also a misconception that because Macs are easy to use they're not versatile and/or powerful. When I need to log into my corporate network from home, I load up Cisco VPN, pull up the underlying Unix terminal in OSX and I'm direct into the Linux box running simulations. If I need to check my corporate Notes email, I can always use webmail but its much cooler to just pull up Windows Remote Desktop Connection for Mac and bring up the Windows machine on my desk through WTS. I've recomplied dhcpd so I can run my eMac as a remote boot server for my headless linux media player through tftp. I've downloaded a java app to communicate with my DVR and stream TV shows back and forth, plus shareware to convert and burn them to DVD. The same is true on the hardware side. My 1996 PM7500 had been overclocked, then I upgraded the cpu, put in a big HD, put in a cd burner, added a hardware DVD decoder and external drive for that, added RAM, even had it running on OS X for a while. My all-in-one Emac has gotten more RAM, wireless, internal DVD-Burner and a bigger harddrive. I put a new LCD module in our MacBook Pro after something was dropped on it. I've also done new optical drives, hard drives, RAM and wireless in my and my dads iBooks.

Granted the newer compact machines are harder to work on, but its not fair to say that you can hack a PC but not a Mac

My only real disappointment at the moment is the poor support for GPS navigation. The guys at Routebuddy are working on rectifying this, but its still pretty far behind the current Windows offerings. If I wanted to I could run those through bootcamp or parallels, but I'll just wait for Routebuddy. Hopefully by the time I put a mac in the Prius they'll be done B)

Rob

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 21 2007, 10:24 AM) [snapback]515823[/snapback]</div>

That's what you get with SpySweeper. It works great but I killed it from my laptop because it takes too many resources and I'm not patient enough to let it run. I'm using Windows Firewall, Defender, and a legally obtained corporate version of Norton Anti-virus and I have no problems (plus I'm extraordinarily cautious when surfing).


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rob Smith @ Sep 21 2007, 06:24 PM) [snapback]515995[/snapback]</div>

I second the motion!!! Congrats everybody!!!!!!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 21 2007, 09:12 AM) [snapback]515775[/snapback]</div>

True, true. My roommate has a Mac Book Pro and doesn't have to do that. I've found CCLeaner and Systernals Autoruns work GREAT for cleaning up XP and Vista. My Vista laptop boots up and logs-in in a minute (or just over it) after using both tools. After I graduate and have the money, I plan to switch to a Mac. My eyes are set upon a horribly expensive Mac Pro that will cost about as much as my Prius (I bought it used). Of course I will get Parallels and run a VM of XP or Vista, that will let me have the best of both worlds. Windows won't leave the corporate world for some time, if ever, so we still need to learn it (whether we like it or not).


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Sep 21 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]515826[/snapback]</div>

Wow! I don't buy computers to be environmentally frienldy (and I don't know anyone who does), I want the power and speed. My laptop has a core 2 duo T7400, and I will never buy anything less powerful, I can't slow this thing down! I don't care how much power it takes to run.


Mac OSX has a lot of features built-in that I love that Microsoft leaves to 3rd parties and most times their stuff doesn't work as well (from first-hand experience, and I'm no slouch when it comes to Windows). I enjoy the simplicity of OSX and its stability. Microsoft can really learn a few things from Apple.

Vista works well, I've had only issues with driver/software compatibility and no other issues. It is annoying to track-down the right driver, but I'll get over it. You can manage the performance issues in Vista if you know where to look.

For all Windows users, SERIOUSLY, DOWNLOAD CCLEANER AND SYSTERNALS AUTORUNS. You will love the performance enhancement. Use Google for the processes you don't understand. You can remove a lot of services and processes from startup b/c you don't need most of them.

 

I am home office dweller, I have iMac, Linux, XP, Vista, and Windows Server.

Windows Server and Linus are the most stable.
Then iMac and Vista.
Then XP, though it aint bad.

Startup time on iMac beats everything hands down. Vista biggest loser there.

I am typing this on iMac, cause I'm still waiting for Vista to boot. (and that's after reading a few threads already). iMac seems to be my "go to" machine when there's not specific reason to use one of the others...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(smithBYU @ Sep 21 2007, 08:36 PM) [snapback]516059[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I think Norton IS is more of a resource hog than SpySweeper. But I could be mistaken. How did you arrive at the conclusion that SpySweeper is a resource hog?