Mad dogs and Canadians

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Sometimes you read something and want to wander off, shaking your head.

    Source: Homeopath “treated” 4-yr-old boy’s behavior problems with saliva from rabid dog | Ars Technica

    “Hair of the dog” remedies may do the trick for some hangover sufferers. But health experts say that a Canadian homeopath took the idea too far—way, way too far.

    Homeopath and naturopath Anke Zimmermann used diluted saliva from a rabid dog to “treat” a four-year-old boy, according to a blog post she published earlier this year. Zimmermann claims that the potentially infectious and deadly concoction successfully resolved the boy’s aggressive behavior, which she described as a “slightly rabid-dog state.”

    The tale fits with the scientifically implausible principles of homeopathy. These roughly state that substances that produce similar symptoms of a particular ailment can cure said ailment (“like cures like”) and that diluting a substance increases its potency (“law of infinitesimals”).
    . . .

    Please don't try this at home.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Ultimately the government needs to step in, stop these quacks, educate parents. A lot of kids too, are missing vaccinations, fluoride, and on and on. :(
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It appears the Canadian authorities approved the practice.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe there's something to it.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Darwin awards.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  7. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    When I come home from a long, frustrating day at work, my dog treats me with a dose of saliva applied directly to my face. After multiple applications with his tongue I feel much better and the tension seems to slip away. Maybe there is something to this.
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    [email protected] It is an extremely effective toxin. At very low concentrations very locally applied, it immobilizes muscle tissue right there. I understand that this contributes to 'beauty'.

    Entirely a different proposition from homeopathy, where serial dilutions of (whatever) are done to the extent that molecules of interest are absent from the diluent. Only their 'memory' remains. That's the story.

    I was also surprised that Canada takes such a gentle regulatory approach to homeopathy. One might set up a snake oil shop just to goad/troll them. After all, who ever heard a snake squeak?
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is also used to treat muscle ticks and the like. Heard a researcher whose career was spent studying the bacteria went for such a treatment. It didn't work because the botox vaccine he had 30 years ago was still effective.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it is interesting how poisons can be used in a way to cure. the wiki page is very enlightening, and it is a uge business, in many arena's.

    for us non science people, it just doesn't make sense.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Bee stings for arthritis? I think I'd prefer arthritis though.
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Mad Dog Salivia c-2018: "scientifically implausible"
    Placing Smallpox pustules under one's skin c-1776: "not so much"

    Just to clean up the "facts" a little WRT our good neighbors to the North, they do not "approve" this method of treatment, but rather it's not (yet) outlawed.
    Given Canadian socialistic leanings, one would not be guilty of conflating the two, but clicks need bait.


    Americans have always had a difficult relationship with inoculations and other groundbreaking "science."
    Out own first President was a smallpox survivor.
    Back then they didn't suffix everything in life with the word "survivor", and he would have merely said that: "I got smallpox when I was a kid..."
    Anyway.....depending on who is cherry picking what story, Washington either forbade smallpox inoculations in the 1770s (he did) or mandated them (he did that too.)
    History, like science is a matter of data management.

    No matter HOW you bend the numbers, and which way you bend them, disease has always been a 'thing' with the military, and in wars even as late as nearly 1900 bacilli > bullets in harvesting young troops.
    One of the legacies even in today's military is the very strong enforcement of vaccinations.
    E1 through O10.
    Loose your vaccination records?
    Get re-vaccinated!

    And yet.......
    Even in 2018, there are still faint, lingering echos of "scientific" studies linking vaccinations to health problems even more severe than the illness that it's being used to prevent.


    ...data management.
     
    #12 ETC(SS), Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Botulinium [email protected] I had no idea. Such vaccine is not in common use AFAICT.

    There are so many examples of medicines derived from toxins that I'd rather not cite examples. Would probably miss some great ones. In any case, every morning I take a 'pit-viper' pill otherwise known as ACE inhibitor.

    It's not mad-dog saliva in question here, as such, but zillion-fold diluted that. Or any homeopathic other thing. Where only 'a memory" of the substance remains in water. This is where homeopathy goes uniquely, spectacularly wrong.
     
  14. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Botox at higher dosages is also used to treat chronic migraines, but only for a limited time period.
    It is a nasty toxin though
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    There can be many nasty microbes in soil. IMHO soil scientists often vastly underestimate the risks. Worst is when 'the kids' in lab are grinding or transferring dried soil. I nag and write memos, but gloves and facemasks and thorough washing up after? Noooooo.

    I just leave the room.
     
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  16. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    A friend of a friend spent several months in hospital after inhaling toxins from mulch/bark in the garden. He was critically ill when first admitted, but is back at work now.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Very happy to hear of recovery, just above.Please perceive that soil microbes have no strong motive to snuff humans. Until very recently we were 1/100 as many as now and not juicy targets.Soil microbes' harm done to Mammalia are what I'd call 'overspray'
     
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  18. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Several observations...

    The treatment substance was so dilute that it had nothing more than the "memory" of the original substance. Whether you believe in the memory effect or not, the treatment would not represent any danger. A small amount of distilled water can hardly be claimed to be dangerous.

    The patient got better after the treatment. That should be good for something.

    I wish conventional treatments were as safe as homeopathic ones. The three leading causes of death in the US are cancer, vascular disease, and conventional medical treatment. Homeopaths certainly have no exclusive on ineffective treatments.

    Recommended reading: "How not to Die" by Michael Greger MD
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we spent our childhoods playing in the soil, maybe that's where it all began to go wrong...
     
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  20. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Canadian federales are a little behind their American counterparts in dealing with pseudo-medical quackery, but it's happening. Though Health Canada has approved some aptly-spoofed 'hair of the dog' remedies, also known as 'nosodes', this particular one was not licenced for sale in Canada, and was actually imported from the UK. The BC Naturopathic Association has filed a complaint, and the Provincial health officer is also on the case. I hope the investigation concentrates more on the pseudo-medical nature of the stuff and less on the 'illegal import' part, but we'll see.

    As for playing in the dirt, aka gardening, I thought it was good for us, in developing our immune systems and all that. Yes, there's the getting outside in the fresh air and sunshine benefit, but some studies show there are microbes in the soil that are beneficial to our mental health. Which of course doesn't counteract the fact that there are 'bad' microbes in the mud too, but it does suggest these tiny organisms have more power over us than we care to admit.
     
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