1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Main Power Cable Size

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by willcomsto, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. willcomsto

    willcomsto New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    2
    0
    0
    Location:
    Washington State
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Hey all! So I've done a fair amount of searching, and it seems that my situation is unique enough that I cant find an answer, or dig an answer out of other Q/A's.

    I'm currently rebuilding an 85 BMW E30, and one of the things I'm doing is replacing all of the electrical. The starting point for me is making new main battery cables. I was walking around the You-Pull-It junkyard yesterday and saw two Gen 2 Prius's sitting there, and I considered that if the main cables from the battery to the inverter/drive motors were robust enough to handle the current for moving an entire vehicle, they could easily (and safely) handle the current necessary to start my engine (probably the biggest load my battery and cables will see).

    Now, after a few hours of research, it seems that those cables never see more than about 110 Amps at about 210 Volts, and with a battery rated at 700 Cold Cranking Amps, I REALLY don't want to overcurrent the cables, burn out a huge wire, and burn my car to the ground.

    Normal output for the alternator and normal driving conditions, the current should theoretically never exceed 60A, which is far less than the Prius, but during a cold start in winter, with cold oil and a 30 year old stubborn German engine, those cables may see as high as 200A.

    Can anyone shed light on whether these cables would be able to be used as main battery cables in another vehicle?

    Thanks!
     
  2. R-P

    R-P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    804
    288
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Rule of thumb: square mm^2 size times ten is current capability.

    So 2.5mm^2 speakercable can handle 2.5 x 10 = 25 ampere.
    My Volvo's cable running from front to back (battery in the boot) is about 35mm^2, so 35 x 10 = 350 A.
    Peak current is more.
    When a cable is running next to other cables (that also cause heat), try to oversize them a factor of two. (Or halve the currentcapability found with the rule of thumb).

    Biggest cables should be from battery to the startermotor AND DON'T FORGET THE GROUNDCABLE AS WELL.

    Most alternators should cranck out about 100A, so 10mm^2 at the very, VERY least. Modern cars will have bigger alternators, my Volvo 140A, the campervan I drove last year even 180A.

    My wishlist for wiring up a 30 year old BMW:
    2Ga or 0Ga from battery to starterrelay and from starterrelay to startingmotor.
    2Ga or 0Ga from battery to chassis ground.

    4Ga from alternator to battery.
    4Ga from battery to fusebox that feeds the car.

    Don't forget that some cars even have ground cabling from alternator to engine, and even more often from engine to chassis. This is to not solely rely on the bolts holding the car together to also be excellent electricity conductors. Think rust causing higher resistance.

    Have a look here to convert Ga's to mm^2 and to cable diameter. Cable diameter can be measured. I am assuming (but never measured) the Prius cables to be 10mm^2 or possibly 16mm^2.
    They could do for most cabling, but I would double them up for the startermotor wiring (and grounding).
    Also, I wouldn't be a fan of using orange wiring for 12V and for ground. That is asking for trouble. Normally red is 12V (or black with red tape and/or red connectors) and black is ground.
     
    #2 R-P, Mar 6, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  3. willcomsto

    willcomsto New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    2
    0
    0
    Location:
    Washington State
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Wow, thanks! Is the color preference more for a common standard to prevent misidentifying, or is there something about the orange wire I should avoid? If it's just a color thing, I can shrink wrap the whole cable red (y)

    I guess Ill measure the actual size of the cable and see if it falls into those rules - thank again!
     
  4. R-P

    R-P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    804
    288
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    II
    The orange color means nothing afaik. So just wrapping them in red should do.

    My father-in-law used earth cable (green-yellow) for supplying a 230V~ lightbulb with power... The next person owning his house is going to be in for a surprise...
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,316
    15,105
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Any independent auto electric shop near you can sell you proper battery cable that's already black and red, and in a selection of gauges that are appropriate to the use. (The one near me, in fact, exclusively uses welding cable, which is even better, more strands that are finer, durable under flexing.) It's inexpensive enough that there shouldn't be much need to substitute salvaged wire that's of dubious suitability.

    The Prius HV cable is shielded, so the central conductor is thinner than you'd expect in a simple wire with the same outward thickness. And there's no particular reason you'd use shielded wire for your 12 volt starting battery application. It's just excess complexity you don't need. (And, somebody else might be able to use that cable for its intended, HV purpose; that stuff is tough to find except in full expensive spools.)

    -Chap
     
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Your calculations are spot on imho. The wire from the hybrid battery to the Inverter in a Prius is not that thick maybe 4 or 2 gauge. Not big enough to service a classic starter motor. I would like a single O at least. Bigger the better. Stranded copper.