Major Alaskan oil field shutting down

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 8 2006, 11:51 AM) [snapback]299604[/snapback]</div>

So true.... And if it pinches some donkey making 250k a year and bitching about gas prices, then maybe we're on our way.

Again having lived in Europe, I've seen the future.... And it is in smaller homes, and cars.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 8 2006, 07:58 AM) [snapback]299554[/snapback]</div>

That's why I'm glad I live in Chicago. I pay $75/month for unlimited bus/el rides and take them almost everywhere. On the odd chance I don't I take a cab or simply walk. I don't have to worry about where to park, I can get things done on the way, or just zone out and enjoy the ride. Too bad this city is in the minority when it comes to public transportation. I don't have a Prius yet because I don't really need one. But, whenever I move, the Prius will be on the top of my list of things to buy.

 

:blink: Damn. My problem is that my Prius is still 2-3 weeks out. :mellow:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 8 2006, 10:26 AM) [snapback]299599[/snapback]</div>

Not assuming anything. Just easier to type. Did you really think Toyota got your point about buying in stock? Really? You want to buy a Prius and a Cambrid. What you do with them after you buy them is immaterial. And Toyota is not advertsiing the heck out of the Prius or Cambrid. In fact, they are just starting to advertise a little. For years I never saw a Prius commercial. (One during the Superbowl doesn't count.) Compared to other companies and other cars the Prius and Cambrid have practically no advertising whatsoever. They don't need it because demand still outstrips supply, no matter how many they make. They keep increasing production more and more and still they can't keep up. And I say....GOOD. Sure, I'd love for there to be Prii and Cambrids on the lot for "instant gratification" buyers. I don't "order" cars either. But in a way I don't. I want Toyota to make more and more and still not be able to meet demand. Because I want demand to keep increasing. I want more and more people to switch to hybrids.

I've owned a Prius for 18 months and I'm very aware of the supply and demand even though I'm not in the market to buy a car. You are in the market to buy a car. Whether it's for yourself or others is immaterial. You should have been aware of the parts split between the Prius and the Cambrid. You should have been aware that while there aren't the year waiting lists there were years ago, you still have to time it right to just go to the dealer and buy one off the lot. AND you can still to that. You just have to do a little work on your own, calling around and finding the car, as has been outlined in many posts here. Others have done it. You've owned your car 17 months and you just joined yesterday and you've made a handful of posts. Perhaps you should have joined when you bought your car. Perhaps you should have joined when you first decided to buy another Prius and Cambrid for your family.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 8 2006, 10:26 AM) [snapback]299599[/snapback]</div>

And if ANWR and all of our off shore areas were opened up tomorrow when would we see this oil? And if it was to supply 100% of the U.S. supply...how long would it last? Delaying the inevitable isn't the answer. Worse, because it lets the public keep it's head in the sand a little longer. And you don't think Toyota is making as many hybrids as it possibly can? You think they're holding back? They're in the business to sell cars. These are cars that people want. Don't you think they'd made as many of them as fast as they possibly could? It's my understanding the only think holding them back is getting the parts from their suppliers.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 8 2006, 10:26 AM) [snapback]299599[/snapback]</div>

Guilty to different degrees. Long time(?) Are you referring to 8 years of Clinton? The GOP has controlled the presidency for 24 of the last 36 years. And how many years during that time was Congress also controlled by the GOP?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 8 2006, 10:26 AM) [snapback]299599[/snapback]</div>

See above. You could have a car tomorrow if you were willing to put the work into finding it. You still get no sympathy from me because you want instant gratification and are ignorant of the market.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 7 2006, 11:37 PM) [snapback]299482[/snapback]</div>

Left-wing? Isn't this the Republican/Libertarian solution to the problem? The market place needs to keep up with market demands. Oil prices are going up because demand is increasing faster than supply (and global supply is limited by more than the actions of local tree-huggers). Toyota is ramping up production to meet the demand for hybrids but it's not keeping up. This is clearly a (short-term) failure of the market economy, not legislation or bleeding-heart activism. (Unless you count vehicle safety and support issues, which might be keeping them from jumping to Li-Ion batteries sooner, as NiMH batteries are becoming expensive and might be part of the bottleneck). But the marketplace will sort things out eventually. As mentioned elsewhere, CAFE has not been part of the solution for some time, it's purely market-driven now. And with your 3 hybrids, you are part of the market that's driving it a new direction. People in a few years will be thanking you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 7 2006, 11:37 PM) [snapback]299482[/snapback]</div>

We can't tell OPEC where to put their oil, because we're too busy putting it into our 18-gallon gas tanks! The problem rests squarely on our shoulders!!

America can't drill their way out of this problem. 1) It would promote excessive gas use, the Hummer would be considered a birthright for a brief flaming moment, 2) We don't have enough oil. Yes, we could supply the nations needs if we drilled everywhere possible, but it would take 5 years of furious activity to ramp up, then about 1 year of peak production and we'd be ramping back down as wells become less productive and then importing nearly 100% of our oil needs a decade later. That would solve nothing long-term. Right now, ANWR is money in the bank, and the effect of environmentalists (intentionally or not) is to make that money gain interest, because sooner or later, it will be tapped. But it hasn't largely been tapped while oil was cheap, which will prove to be a great asset for our country.

We could have avoided the current pain if the government had been proactive (real CAFE limits, similar to what we've done for A/C units, furnaces, toilets, pretty much everything that didn't have a massive lobby trying to tell us it would hurt the American economy if we made things work better and more efficiently). As we see, the marketplace is reactive, so any time of transition causes some growing pains as we adjust to the new reality. Individuals can also be proactive, if properly informed, and that's the best choice, but how many average citizens have investigated the future of oil?

{edited 1:15 PM, somehow got two copies of this in here originally}

 

Fill up?!?!

Be realistic. The pipeline is going to be down for months. Saving a buck or two on a single tank today is hardly worth creating a panic.

If the price is going to change, it will change. Creating a rush to the pump certainly won't help matters.

It would be different if you anticipated a one-week price spike. Any price change would last far longer than your single tank of gas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jann @ Aug 8 2006, 12:37 AM) [snapback]299482[/snapback]</div>

so you're going on about how you drive a prius and you're feeling the pain of having to stick $30 in your prius gas tank at a time, when you make $250k a year??? you've got to be kidding me.

my husband and i *combined* don't even make 20% of your income. and gas prices DO hurt us with his older camry. but we've owned a prius for over a year. see, some of us have this thing called "financial discipline" and can make it happen for the sake of the long term.

 

Listening to people complain that fuel price increases has harmed them, because it hampers there eating out and/or vacations just shows how warped this country is.

People need to get a life, and set some priorities. A nurse friend of mine who is considering a Prius after listening to me as nauseum provides an instructive lesson: she loves to go on long drives, but finds them becoming too expensive in her SUV. She views the Prius as a solution that will allow her to continue her current consumption lifestyle. Notions of conservation do not come into play .. yet.

 

Hmmm BP suddenly found "sludge" in the pipeline and have to take sections out of service for months. How very convenient. I say that as I'm involved in R&D and prototyping of new industrial sensors.

We've only had sensors to detect minute amounts of residue in pipelines for what now ... 25 years?? Interesting how something like critical infrastructure appears to be using ancient controls and sensors.

Also interesting how when I've been to China on business their refineries are running state-of-the-freaking-art Foundation FieldBus and Industrial Ethernet sensors/valve positioners with advanced predictive loop control, and refineries in the U.S. are still using 1960's 5-15 psi pneumatic control loops. The Chinese refinery can go from cold to in-spec in 5 hours, the American refinery needs 2-3 weeks.

Oh well, this only means much more demand for the Alberta Tar Sands. Good for Alberta, their economy is really humming along, and the oil exports will help the Canadian economy.

I strongly encourage every American family to rush out and purchase - no, FINANCE - a couple of gas guzzling SUV's or pickups. Try to get the largest V8, or a V10 if offered. Thanks!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 8 2006, 10:29 AM) [snapback]299676[/snapback]</div>

At least if your friend trades her SUV for a Prius she will only be using about third of the gas than she uses now. Of course someone else will buy the used SUV but at least it will be one owner closer to the junk yard. Unfortunately almost every car maker including Toyota is pushing these gas eating monsters on the uninformed and the ignorant as fast as they turn them out. Well maybe not quite as fast judging from the parking lots of Hummers posted here a while back.

It might be good in the long term if we could shut down virtually all of our domestic production of oil. Let the price go up and save what we have in the ground for future generations. Sometime in the maybe not to distant future, providing the human race lasts that long, oil will be to valuable as a lubricant and for use in plastics etc to use as a fuel. It might be nice if we had some left for our descendents when that happens.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Aug 7 2006, 11:25 AM) [snapback]299065[/snapback]</div>

I agree. Walking into work today thru the parking lot, I noticed 15 trucks in a row....all with one driver and no passengers. What a waste.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Aug 7 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]299237[/snapback]</div>

Oy. I was waiting for this. ANWAR is not the answer to our problems. ANWAR maybe has 10 billion barrels of oil. We here in the US consume 19 million barrels of day of this fuel. So, you'd like to rip up the most absolute prisine habitat/refuge in the whole of the US to drive our cars for only one calander year. Meanwhile, our foreign imports would drop by only about 5% and the price of a barrel of oil by only .50 cents. The oil generated from this area wouldn't even hit our market until about 2013 so it's not even a short term solution. This is logical to you????? This is not a solution to our energy concerns. The excessive cost of implementing drilling in this area could be put to good use by providing incentives to businesses or individuals that implement the use of alternative energy sources. Or how about the administration get off it's nice person and demand an increase to the fuel efficincies of our cars. The technology already exists and I'm sure this can be transitioned much more cost effectively than gearing up drilling the ANWAR.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Aug 8 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]299751[/snapback]</div>

I think you mean 19 million barrels a year. At least I hope so. :blink:

Ack, I just looked it up, and it IS per day!!! :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

Yeah, I too went ack!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ServoScanMan @ Aug 8 2006, 12:35 PM) [snapback]299744[/snapback]</div>

I don't think that owning a Prius gives us the right to judge others purchases. If they whine about gas prices, heck yeah but just because they made a purchase choice that there might be reasons for you don't know? Maybe they use them for some type of work or hobby where there is no alternative. I don't know of anyone that has a gas guzzler that wouldn't want to find a better alternative... I live in an Ag area and there is not an alternative to regular gas or diesel pickups, one that is reliable in the very very hot Desert area.

If you want something done then write to all political reps and have them get serious about CAFE. That is the huge key. What does it matter if we all want better mpg cars if they are not available in the numbers demanded. I am not into government involvement but sometimes it takes the government to "Lead" us to a better future. Do you really think that the car companies, in their current state, could just retool all their factories and produce better mpg cars overnight? All this takes time and should have been done long ago.

To the Anwar - NO!!! Oil is not the future and Anwar will give false hope and is only like two months US demand worth. As with what someone else mentioned it wont come online for years and then people will use it as false hope. We need to use all technologies (Hybrids, Ethanol,etc...) to get us through and who knows maybe the long term answer will be some mix or some totally new technology someone hasn't come up with yet. The one thing that is for sure it cant be oil unless another Suadi Arabia comes online and that is not expected...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 8 2006, 10:29 AM) [snapback]299676[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying long trips are a sign of Consumption lifestyle? I think that one problem with the US is that people dont do long drives to see the beauty of this country and see and talk to other Americans from other areas. Most people I know that complain about fuel prices is how it is hurting their business which might or might not cause them to add an employee or give raises or expand, all of which are positives to us all.

As for me I bought a Prius because it is a real nice car, safe and yes the mileage is what got me to look. I have to say though that I am excited because I can take long trips with my wife and SON so that he can get the best Civics and US history lesson available. I drive at least 20k/yr for my business and used to drive a Corolla because I dont like giving Car or Fuel companies more money than I need to. I must say that I dont make any judgements on others purchases because that is their decision and their costs. Most of my friends and clients are talking like their next car will be some sort of hybrid or flexfuel car. I think that is a big positive and if we can help that, that is awesome. So power to your friend and who cares why she is saving the environment as long as she is. Don't complain about people doing right because you don't like why!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Aug 8 2006, 08:53 AM) [snapback]299605[/snapback]</div>

What works in Europe is not automatically going to work here. Smaller homes, well that will take I dont know 100 years to complete? Smaller cars, I am 6'4" and large and I drive a Corolla and a Prius so I do my part but that is my choice. Unfortunately, we have been lax with our representatives and let them vote down a CAFE raising. Again this is not going to be done overnight so until you and your supporters realize that, you are just going to get shrugs. This needs to be a call to all of us, and calling someone an donkey is not going to get us to work together, to push our political reps to do the right thing and be honest for once to all of us...

Smaller cars are less safe usually and you cant blame parents for not wanting their kids transported in a car a fraction the size of an SUV. I never had my infant in my Corolla, never. I live in big SUV area and no way am I going to endanger him. Stupid, say what you will, but Rear Side airbags, making Prius get a good safety rating (hard to get), was the main option I wanted in a Prius. They are not available in either the Corolla or Yaris but they are for the Camry, which gets 10 to 15 mpg less. Is it a bad environmental decision to go with the Camry or a great parenting decision. I guess I am tired of some of you acting like since you bought a Prius you are special!!! People buy cars for many reasons and some of them are a hell of a lot more important than high mpg to them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(triphop @ Aug 7 2006, 09:24 PM) [snapback]299469[/snapback]</div>

A couple of years ago, in fact, just a few months before the '04 elections, now I think about it...DH and I were on a trip in Norway and heard how they are handling their oil reserves. AND how they are spending some of the profits from what they ARE producing for silly things, like health insurance for all their citizens. And free higher education. Silly things WE are just WAY to smart to think of as more important than opening ANWR.

At the time, I told him if dubya won the election, we were moving to Norway...Haven't convinced him YET, but it's getting closer...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Angelus @ Aug 8 2006, 09:02 AM) [snapback]299610[/snapback]</div>

And if there were decent public transportation HERE, in my part of NoCal, we would not be a 5-car/3 driver family (it's ok...one of the cars is about to be sold...an '87 BMW L7... ...and another is going to be buried with DH when that time should come...it is his '75 Triumph Spitfire that he has had since his wild and single days in San Fran, in 1980...and he's gonna HAVE to be buried in it, since we're both starting to creak so much getting in and out of the little bugger, the day's gonna come he ain't gonna be ABLE to get out! )

 

<_< Dallas Morning News had an article indicating a 5¢ price increase due to the shutdown. Oil Companies will use any excuse whether or not it is applicable. The Alaskan shutdown will affect California refineries.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ Aug 8 2006, 03:36 PM) [snapback]299835[/snapback]</div>

Charles, as a current Californian, who lives VERY near SEVERAL refineries, and yet who pays more per gallon than just about everywhere OUTSIDE of California, believe me when I tell you that all it takes for CA prices to be affected is for ONE whale to fart in the general vicinity of ANY oil tanker ANYWHERE on the planet.
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