March 2014 - Hybrid Dashboard Report

The future of what?

Nothing has been prevented.

I have no idea where you got that impression. Perhaps you misread my posts when I pointed out change needed and challenges still faced.

Just because they require much work, doesn't mean they cannot be achieved.

 

My guess is John is referring to this old rumor from Nov 2011. note: the Greencar reports link never fully opened for me.
GM exec confirms 2014 Chevrolet Cruze plug-in hybrid model
GM Exec Confirms 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Plug-In Hybrid Model
IIRC, it would have had the FWD two-mode hybrid system and EV performance similar to the Ford Energi's.

The more recent rumors have a 'lite' version, if talking about EV capabilities, keeping the current EV range while getting a fifth seat into the car. Which might offered along side a 'heavy' model with 50 mile range, but limited to 'just' four seats.

 

In my area each dealer (or most of them) had at least one Prius to test drive in August of 2000. Since I'd signed up on the Internet one+ years earlier to get one of the Gen 0 right-hand drive test cars, and didn't get it, I got an email a few weeks before the car was at the dealer. I drove it and ordered at the dealer and got one in early October 2000. You could also order on line, but, IIRC, you had to print out the order and bring it to your dealer. I don't remember if it was really not until May 2002 that my local dealer had cars on the lot. I think it was a lot earlier than that.

True. But at least at first you could not just walk in and buy one. First the dealer had to have a trained tech, then you had to order the car and you got it 2-3 months later, generally. Toyota was very cautious and didn't want dealers to have them sitting unsold on lots, worrying that it was so new that maybe some regions might not buy them.

It could have been Toyota US that was being cautious or Toyota Japan.

Mike

 

I had no idea you weren't following recent news. That explains why the discussion was trapped in the past.

Having found that out is quite a relief. It seemed bizarre that we weren't on the same page.

When things fell apart with ELR and the flurry of recalls erupted, the plan for GM to offer a choice of Volt models emerged... which is why I've been talking about the new chapter having begun.

The next generation is expected to offer a choice for the enthusiast and also a choice for the mainstream buyers.

Wow! I didn't realize this was the information that had been missed. The discussion should certainly take an interesting turn now.

 

Do you have links on these details? I have not read about a "lite" version, only that there are to be 2 new plug-ins.
This is what "official" gm said about range recently.
GM executive chief EV engineer says reducing cost of plug-in vehicles is 'huge priority'

Sounds like they aren't going to stray a great deal in range, but no announcement. Also she is being cagey on range, the numbers i saw had about 75% of the miles electric on 2013, lower on older models (smaller battery), not 82%.
Volt Stats! Tracking real world usage of Chevy Volts in the wild...
Perhaps 82% of trips are all electric, and those longer gasoline trips dropping the percent of miles.

 

The "we" mentioned in the above statements certainly does not include me. It totally eludes me how the "penetrate deeper into existing markets, rather than spreading limited inventory thinner" did not apply to the 2001 Prius bought in FL but now applies to the PiP. A market is penetrated with sales, not prevention of sales. Toyota's decision to limit the PiP to a few states has some specific corporate reason, not marketing reason. Maybe they wanted to stop the expanding third party PiP modifications to the conventional Prius. Maybe their profit is minimal. Maybe they feel it undercuts some other Toyota model(s) they want to stress. Maybe they want to get engineering feedback and this needs to concentrate sales to tight regions. Maybe they have a worry about heat issues. (They avoid the hot states like crazy. Even the coldest states are avoided.) I don't have a crystal ball, but claiming that it is some clever marketing manipulation to cause later PiP sales to take off does not seem viable.

 

That wasn't just online banter when I mentioned Economics classes. I was quite serious, that business study was minor in college.

Not only is that viable, it is quite realistic. There is no build up of demand by delay, as your statement implies though.

Learning more about the market before taking the next step forward is very important. I thought that was obvious. Clearly not. Apparently, all those grueling cases and exercises really paid off!

Anywho, Toyota saw what was happening and adjusted course. Since they had included the flexibility in their plans anyway, it didn't cost much. They hadn't backed themselves into a corner.

Taking that opportunity doesn't make some people happy, but it is good business.

 

I'm somewhat befuddled how such major hoopla could have been missed, but I suppose it happens.

About a month ago, the internet exploded from the (as usual) somewhat ambiguous information GM stated about their $449 Million investment in future vehicle production.

The revelations of Volt emerged from that. I'd suggest starting with the Detriot Free Press, then EV Inside, then AutoNews, then GM Insidenews, then the GM Volt forum. Chatter online was quite abundant.

 

Is not marketing about how to increase sales?

 

It is one of many tools available.

 

So you have nothing? The "internet exploded" with "Chatter online", that is not news my friend that is idle speculation. I included one of the recent interviews, which had nothing about your volt "lite". I had seen the term before, in idle speculation, that seemed to be about putting out false information. Do you have a link with details? Really nothing from my quick search has anything saying GM is going to ditch the big battery pack and go small instead.

 

GM didn't say that and I certainly didn't either.

What part of increasing choice by offering a second model are you not following?

 

The next gen Volt rumors thread, I brought up the rumor of two Volt models. One with the current seating arrangement, but increased EV range. The other with current EV range, and more interior space. This was dated when I mentioned it in the thread. The Voltec SUV one is even older.

Found this: Exclusive: GM planning lower-priced version of 2016 Chevy Volt - sources| Reuters
"The standard Volt won't deviate dramatically from the current model, which is priced from just under $35,000 and has a driving range of up to 380 miles, according to Chevrolet.
GM also wants to offer a lower-cost edition, priced from just over $30,000 that would likely have a range of less than 300 miles, with less equipment, the supplier sources said."
Nothing from GM. Just more rumors. Which John criticized us for spreading in the Volt thread.

 

How I feel about GM's Volt: "I wish them well, but I will never buy one" (Yes, I've test-driven one).

Why? Because, it's like wishing house-guests, who've over-stayed their welcome, a "safe trip" -- you mean it, but nowhere nearly as enthusiatically as Sally Fields said it at the Oscars (wink,wink).

To me, the Volt is little more than a battery-powered Cruze (designed in Korea, using a German-designed engine).

 

You said they were going to do a volt lite. I asked for a link, and you went on a rant about how could I not know. Come on John, what kind of game are you playing. GM said they are going to add two other electrified vehicles to the plant. There is speculation on what they are, but certainly not any links I can find that says anything like you explicitly said.

Let's just end the game, and stop playing like I should know or care about your rumor mill.

 

It's GM playing the game. They work the internet, taking advantage of the hype which emerges from their ambiguous releases. It allows them their flexibility. Whether the information is accurate or not doesn't matter, the idea becomes real when there is an endorsement for it. That all feeds upon it self, having a direct impact on other automakers.

In other words, asking me to stop is just shooting the messenger. You can avoid participation elsewhere and just dismiss content lacking credibility, but that won't prevent the activity itself from continuing.

Rumors have a very strong influence, especially when it comes to spreading greenwash material. Do we really want to just sit back and let it happen... or worse, not even bother to address it?

 

They did. The link I posted above mention two other vehicles(Caddy and Buick, maybe), but not whether or not they would be electricfied.

 

Yes, the NS4 and fuel cell stuff does get old.

 

Neither were promoted as their premiere upoming mainstream offering though.That is a major difference.

 

When you are spreading rumors, its really bad when some says, that doesn't seem right, and you get all mad and blaime them for not paying attention. Its the proper thing to not spread unsubstantiated rumors. Please, when called on it next time don't get all hufffy as if we should be all engaging in your bad behaviour.

That is not at all true. I asked you for a link. Instead of saying, oh I'm just spreading a internet rumor that I say, you instead yelled at me for not knowing all about it. That I missed the important news or something, and you had these great facts. You are not a messanger there, you are a big hyper, distorting the facts. Don't play it off as if you presented the facts as they were.

I think the worst thing to do is to spread false rumors as facts. What you have been spreading is likely to be false, and instead of admitting that, you have this whole made up thing about how what you are doing is a service. When someone asks you for a link, just give it, don't make up this whole fake argument.

If the rumor turns out to be true, doubtful, you really haven't done me any service for presenting it early. If it turns out to be false, and you have clearly implied it was a fact, you have done damage to your own credibility.

Neither was the volt. The mainstream offerings from gm are the cruise and the silverado.

It's not an internet rumor that Toyota is proting fuel cells and trashing plug-ins. Here is Toyota's latest pile of messaging..... Toyota Shows Distain: Even for their Own RAV4-EV | PriusChat