Mazda MX-30

Discussion in 'Mazda Hybrids and EVs' started by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    An EV for A to B, not 0-60

    I love this design philosophy, though personally I'd like to see it available in shapes other than crossover.

    Engadget article with details
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    This is the actual car. Previous threads and articles were about a test mule with the drive train. The design stand out is having those 'freestyle' doors like the i3.
     
  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I read that article yesterday. I thought it pretty strange. It seems like Mazda just doesn't like electric in any form, but if they hate it so much, why did they build one and then partially cripple it to make it less appealing.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    propst_005.jpg
    I have one already: 2014 BMW i3-REx. It is backup for our Tesla Model 3. Only this car does 0-60 a lot faster than the Mazda.

    Hummmm, did they catch GM's 'Hummer disease?' Are they making one to prove traditional automakers are incapable of competing with Tesla?

    Bob Wilson
     
    #4 bwilson4web, Jan 14, 2020
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  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The way I see it, they can make a nice useful BEV this way. And nobody will run themselves out of range playing silly burnout games. And most importantly, Mazda avoids falling into the trap of needing more of everything and winding up with a low-volume luxury barge EV.

    Lots of speed and power and a giant battery for extreme range sounds nice mind you. Once the batteries are under $45/kWh I'd develop a serious interest in owning one. Until then, this Mazda and the underlying value proposition are much more interesting to me.
     
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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, they need one for some markets, but I think the Engadget article is giving the wrong impression. I would not say Mazda is crippling it, though I think their emission study is suspect.

    100 to 150 miles of EV range is more than enough for the majority. The push for 200+ miles is mostly because of range anxiety, and people over estimating how many miles they actually drive. A smaller battery means lower weight, better efficiency, and lower price. For those that want to take the car on longer trips, a compact range extender is probably a better solution at this time.

    The motor in the MX-30 is lower power than the ones found in other BEVs, like the Bolt and Kona. There is probably cost and other benefits to doing so. It isn't a pocket rocket, but its performance is in line with Mazda's CX-3; a similarly sized SUV. Keeping it closer to the ICE in driving performance could make it an easier sale, but it will depend on the price; it should be under $30k going by past BEVs of such range.

    Mazda is taking a pragmatic approach to plug-ins, and their plans are similar to Nissan's, except that they don't have a fuel cell. You make a car with an electric drive train. The energy source for that drive train depends upon the market and infrastructure there of. The car can be a non-plug series hybrid, like Nissan's ePower system, given a slightly larger battery for a PHEV along the lines of the Prime in range, or have enough battery range to be a workable BEV, with or without range extender.
    [​IMG]
    The e-TPV was the concept/test mule for this drive train.
    https://priuschat.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.motor1.com%2Fimages%2Fmgl%2F3PAXR%2Fs3%2Fmazda-la-giusta-misura-dell-elettrico.jpg&hash=c7a59e9ded8314710e0dadf4c8239a97
     
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I'm not opposed to the limited range. Less battery weight should help efficiency and quicker charging times are nice and that range is probably enough for most situations except in cold weather where it might not get you as far as you'd hoped. 120 miles would probably work for me around town but maybe 150-200 miles is a better compromise for folks who live in big cities in the north.

    But with reducing the torque and the range it's a little like the worst of both worlds. Everyone complains about the Prius' 10-second 0-60 times, so they aren't going to go nuts over 9 seconds. I'm not saying it needs to perform like a Tesla but a little more oomph and a little more range, and I think it would be a considerably better vehicle.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'm pretty sure you mean the people who don't live in the big cities in the North.

    Mission creep is deadly. A little more of this, a little more of that, oh heck everyone needs rain sensing wipers and a head up display and refrigerated seats and oh darn it... we're right back to the luxobarge we were trying to avoid building.

    Same day zero to 60, don't drive it very far from an outlet and keep it under $30k. They'll sell a mountain of them.
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    "the soft bigotry of low expectations"

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Mazda CX-3 is their small SUV, and this plug in is about the same size, likely the same platform. It is about as fast as the MX-30. With a motor's low rpm torque, and the ballast of the battery, the MX-30 will probably feel sportier than the CX-3.

    It will likely be priced around $28k to $30k. Which is about $7k to $10k less than the faster and longer range BEVs available.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i like the idea of limited power, thats why i drive a prius.

    i don't like the rear doors, and i need to see the hatch space.

    if it comes in at a good price, that should help sales, as long as it qualifies for max gov incentives.
     
  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    This is an interesting thought.
    Just because I would say a decade ago, when I first started looking into Hybrids and Prius, there were other options.
    But for me? I never took them too seriously because I felt with a lot of automakers there was this almost a dichotomy of support, non-support for their own Hybrid products. While conversely I felt Toyota had a history and a real tangible DNA of supporting Hybrids and Prius especially.

    I think in 10 years things have changed. But...also some things stay the same.
    Can a car company that's motto/slogan use to be "Zoom, Zoom" transition to the non-ICE reality of EV's?
    Or do they almost subconsciously meter their own support of their own product?
     
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  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Nope, I meant what I wrote. Lots of people up north sing the blues because the EV they'd been told would go XX miles on a charge did go that far ... in June. But then they are shocked when in January they can't even come close to that distance and they find out the hard way that in the winter, they can't make it back from Grandma's house without finding a place to charge.

    Yup! That's what I was thinking. You said it well. I'm just skeptical enough to wonder if someone at Mazda had been harping that they need to get on the electric bandwagon and the engineers finally decided they would make an "I told you so" car. Not accusing; just wondering.

    Then again, this could be the start of a major shift in thinking at Mazda. I do not know! I hope so.
     
  14. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well, as is often discussed here in one form or another, I think the shift to electrics, hybrids, or any other as of yet unknown alternative vehicle is really a process of inevitable evolution.
    What timeline it's on? Is really the only question.
    I don't expect Mazda to suddenly become a major player in the EV world, but then again? Prius was Toyota's major foothold into the world of Hybrids, so really all it takes is 1 good product, supported well.

    Whether they are successful or not, I like to see "alternatives" created and promoted.
    I'm an older person now. I think youth is more flexible and accepting of change.
    My at the time, I believe 10 year old nephew, read me the riot act when he found out I had traded in my Prius. Even at a young age, he's much more open about the idea of Electrics, Hybrids, and/or public transportion options, than I was at his age.

    When I was 10? I wanted a car. And NOT a efficient hybrid or electric. I wanted a Jeep or a 67 Mustang. I never got either.
     
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  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Crossover-Ute with a 35.5kWh battery and a rotary engine range extender?
    Below 40 kilobucks?
    Looks like a car that a norm would drive?

    Winner winner chicken dinner!!!
     
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I suppose I had it in my head that the suburbanites outside the cities were driving more than the folks actually in the cities, but I haven't got real data either way.
     
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  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The federal tax credit tops out at 16kWh. I'm more worried about CARB hobbling the range extender like they did the i3REx.

    The doors help distinguish it from the CX-3. It is a 'subcompact', so the hatch volume might be disappointing, but it depends on what you are planning to carry back there.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Mazda hasn't moved on to a EV platform yet. The MX's long hood is a carry over from a SkyActiv platform. plenty of space for the range extender there though.

    Mazda is a small company, and didn't possess the means of developing their own hybrid system while also improving their engines, and hybrids without a plug are only as good as their engine. The hybrids they did put out came from Ford and Toyota, but they are the only car company selling a HCCI gas engine, which might match a hybrid.

    The e-TPV shown off had the range extender, and there was little talk of a BEV model. The engineers probably loved it as it is probably the only way the company will be able to sell a Wankel again. Considering certifications, a BEV is easier and quicker to get to market. In Europe, it also sounds like regulations covering range extenders haven't been finalized.

    Mazda favours smaller batteries for upcoming EVs | Autocar

    Those in which the EV range is too 'short' will be opting for the extender. I just hope CARB rules have changed by then.
    Some count the suburbs as part of the city. My round trip commute is on the long side of the bell curve at 60 miles, and I had figured the old Ioniq Electric, with a little over 120 miles of range, had plenty of range, even in the winter. Now, trips to grandma's house in the cold may not have worked, but I and most other people with a BEV would have a second car for such trips.
     
    #17 Trollbait, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wow, that's really ugly compared to the cx-3
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The headlight grill area makes the long hood look even longer. Could be the photo. The car's color and the lighting is hiding some of the curves and creases. Better ones over here; Mazda MX-30 (2021) - pictures, information & specs
    The hood actually has a down slope like the CX-3. Only shot of the cargo area I found was from above and away. It appears the same as the CX-3's.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Another thought on the reduce torque output from reading about the Mini EV. Mazda could also of had reducing torque steer as a consideration.