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Meanwhile, at Exxon...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    When I learn that we are not actually going to hell in a handbasket, I try to post the cheerful news here:



    Of most interest to me is that CEO Rex Tillerson suggests that a reason people don't know this (as well as he does) is science and math illiteracy. I certainly share his concerns over the illiteracy, but it does not quite lead me to his same conclusions.

    Posting the +comments page of the story, mostly to mess with your heads. Apologies in advance :)

    If you can find solace in his words, then I'm glad to have helped.
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Video doesn't seem to work for me.
     
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    +1 not working
     
  4. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    The video does not work for me as well, but I blame my math illiteracy. <G>
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Dang, I was not posting video - what a world

    Is this link any better>?



    I cannot doubt that the story will be re-imagined at the onion, so we can look there later.

    Frankly I am still stuck on his name Rex. Not everyone can be the king, but if you can pull it off, man-oh-man.

    and demeaning the science literacy of people who actually know the stuff that he does not. Man-oh-man.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    if all else fails, search at msnbc for Tillerson

    What a world...
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Evil Exxon again foils environmental scientist . . . non-story again at 6 on PriusChat. <grins>
    http://www.indystar.com/article/20120627/BUSINESS/120627038/Exxon-s-CEO-Rex-Tillerson-Climate-energy-fears-overblown

    He goes on to say:
    Yes and no. Yes we we will adapt but usually only after a terrible price in blood and bodies has been paid ... again and again.

    Warning: over one hour:


    Bob Wilson
    ps. Once found in a YouTube search (I used a date string and name,) click on 'Share' to the the link.
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    And meanwhile in Washington...
    I quote the entire newspiece from today in Science (magazine)
    Let 'em sue me. The link is behind the paywall anyway, and I am having poor luck lately putting up links.

    "
    House Panel Set to Slash Climate, Environmental Research

    The U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Committee appears set this week to approve a 2013 spending bill that would impose deep cuts in climate and ecological research conducted by the Department of the Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).
    A preliminary version of the Interior and Environment Appropriations Bill approved by a subcommittee on 19 June would cut funding for an array of climate research programs by 29%, or $101 million, from current levels. Spending at EPA would fall to $7 billion, or 17% below 2012 levels, while USGS would see a 9% cut to $967 million. The bill also seeks to block the Obama Administration from moving forward with some environmental regulations, including rules aimed at protecting streams and forests. If approved by the full committee, the bill still faces a vote in the full House and would have to be reconciled with a Senate version, which is likely to be very different. Final action is not expected until late this year."

    So, the legislating is not over yet, but This House Committee appears to share the first-mentioned perspective on what scientific literacy iz. Ma oh man.

    If perchance they defund (or slow-fund) the Argo floats, we would lose most capability to measure ocean heat fluxes. That would peg out the dumb-o-meter. Just one opinion...
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Another link

    Cookies Required

    perhaps of interest? I liked the 'trust chart'.

    Actually Holden's attempt to simplify a scientific message, together with the comment at bottom of page, demonstrate a vexing point.

    You can (knowingly, as Holdren did) oversimplify a scientific matter. The radiation/banana thing. This leaves you exposed to refutation, mostly accurate in this case, that iodine accumulates in the thyroid and strontium accumulates in dem bones. Potassium (and to correct a point, cesium), is pissed away. I will set aside the rest of dosdos' comment :)

    But here's the thing: Holdren knows about bioaccumulation; he's a sciency guy. He is trying to find a level that communicates something useful without glazing over the publics' eyes. This is not simple, and it varies for different audiences with whom one wants to communicate. Aim at the wrong level, and you get dosdos' disdain. And of course, from others as well.

    It is correct, but insufficient, to say that science should strive to communicate better. The point is illustrated just as well by the first two things I mentioned in this thread. But, as soon as the science touches upon major matters of policy and economics, one confronts barriers that exist not just because scientists are such poor communicators. People just don't wanna know.

    Tricky stuff.
     
  10. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    It's only tricky because so many science communicators take it way too lightly. Any (good or evil) marketing operative will tell you that message packaging and context are just as important as the message itself. Doing a dry run is essential for success. Why should anyone expect "shoot from the hip" science explanations to be different. Holden's example was unbelievable poor right out the door. I know this radiation stuff fairly well and Holden's example flopped for even me. I'm sure a great many listening would interpret that example as showing bananas having a lot of radiation.

    All he had to do was bring one chart. On the chart is how much radiation a person standing on the coast of California would receive from:

    1) Cosmic Radiation
    2) Eating Food
    3) Breathing California air before Fukushima Accident
    4) All other sources
    5) Fukusima Accident

    At that point, anyone paying attention would see the minuscule contribution of the accident. That would not do anything for those that just "don't want to know" (nothing would), but would do a lot for those that do care. (And it would not offend the banana industry--which was irked at Holden's example--and I don't blame them.)
     
  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...yes very tricky stuff. Scientists/technologists (like me) are sort of like the Men in Black.
    We know there are aliens running around (and radioactive potassium in bananas) but we keep it from the public so they do not panic. Hey nobody told me about the banana thing.
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Those interested in 'radioactive stuff U can buy' might visit

    Radioactive Consumer Products

    warning: the list is incomplete :)

    My favorite 'vendor site' for environmental radioactive measurements is

    Aware Electronics Corp. Radiation Monitors for PCs

    Which I may have posted hereabouts before. I think that Aware Electronics got an uptick of business after Fukushima 'relaxed its containment policy'.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    As the original topic was scientific literacy, more or less, this might not be viewed as straying off topic.

    Depending on local geology where you live and how your house is constructed, your radioactive dose may be dominated by radon. Not nuclear reactors, or bananas, or bags of garden fertilizer containing potassium.

    So Holdren missed a teachable moment; probably rather widely. He might have talked about the excellent resources aavailable from the USGS on radon, commercial and personal options for radon testing, and on-site remediation. Some large proportion of people fearful of Fukushima would do much better to channel those concerns towards understanding and managing their own personal environments.

    Now that's scientific literacy, and I'd probably do better by emailing him than nattering away here.
     
  14. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Just for entertainment purposes: When I was on the sub, we had to wear dosimeters on our belt 24/7. One of the core lectures we got, and later had to give to all personnel, was:

    NEVER, EVERY take your dosimeter into a hospital or a dentist's office. The Navy had strict exposure limits and failing to follow the above rule could cause great career setbacks. (e.g. You don't get sub pay or professional advancement if you are not allowed onboard due to dosimeter limits). The upside is that most submariners are fully aware of how much radiation the medical system can zap you with in short order. Radon is a big issue for some locations, but what you can get during a CAT scan or X-Ray is just as significant.
     
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    We have radon in north VA and many home have ventilation systems in the basements.
    When I lived in NJ we had natural radon (or was it radium?) in the drinking water supply, the fix was to blend it down so they were under EPA drinking water standards. I of course would have preferred treatment + blending.