Featured Mercedes Dragged into Dieselgate

Oh you did not just go there!

 

I gather Bosch created (in short over-summary) a laboratory-only, high-emissions/high-MPG mode in their diesel-engine controllers, warned their customers not to use it in production, and VW ... forgot [wink!] … about that warning.

 

I watched that Netflix expose of VW, and there was passing mention of Mercedes. There was also suggestion that the way the European regs are set up, coupled with government enmeshment, the cheating was almost inevitable.

 

Should have just buy up the regulator to get what you want. Toyota did great with CARB and foolcell ruling, without breaking any laws.

 

The auto industry is an oligopoly. I would be suprised if FCA (fiat chrysler) and gm were not also involved.

The European regulators set up a system where

A) Tests are easy to detect and have little to do with real world driving.
B) Diesel is favored over gasoline for regulatory purposes.
C) Regulation was too tough in too short a period of time to comply
D) Made sure to not really test the vehicles to give the win win of "tough regulations" and Successful "lowering of ghg" at a low price while closing their eyes to cheating.

People on and off this forum have bemoaned the US having higher fuel consumption than europeans because regulations aren't tough enough. Well perhaps helping competitors outside the oligopoly (tesla ;-)) and making testing more real world and enforceable are more important than cheating and scoring high on a bad test.

 

i thought luxury cars had the luxury of the expensive emissions system with the tank of kool aid you had to refill, that vdub didn't want to use.

 

You mean piss (urea/ad blue), yes they can do that, and mercedes does.

But they look like they reduced use of urea after the vehicle was warmed up/aka past the distance of the testing. They don't appear to have cheated as much as vw, but reduced urea consumption/allowed more power to make the cars higher polluting and better for the customers. Gee, what customer service. Unlike vw this can be changed with software.

Berlin demands answers from Daimler over diesel 'pollution cheating' devices - The Local
The said engines were manufactured for mercedes by renault.

 

For sure the mercedes side of diesel cheating is not in the same league as VW, but it is responsible for the cheating.

I would say this is a lot like the baseball steroids use or tour de france doping scandal. Here we probably have the case of the european regulators and vw group (vw, audi, porsche are the prime brands) conspiring for the cheat. Bosch provided testing software to see how it would do without full SCR and in hot and cold regions of the engine. Bosch put a full disclosure on this that it should not be used on a production vehicle, and there is good reasons for the software (see how good you can make the engine without scr).

My guess is other car makers couldn't push back at the regulators, so they cheated like VW group, which means just like baseball and tour de france the regulators were in on it. How do you compete against a cheating team if you don't cheat? It looks like all the european auto makers probably cheated to get to euro 6 without making pollution control even more expensive, or performance much worse than gasoline engines.

Yes mercedes and bmw both appear to have engines that don't cheat and it can be done, but an atkinson or miller cycle engine with an ima system would likely be less expensive, lower polluting, and higher performance than diesel that conforms to euro 6 or epa. Mercedes is doing this with its new M256 gasoline engine - IMA, miller cycle with conventional 2 scroll turbocharging + electric supercharging. This gives the low end torque of a diesel, with the high end power of a turbocharged engine - it can't get the city fuel economy on the euro test of a cheating diesel though.

 

Was that a Tesla joke?

 

Ah yes, I’d completely forgotten about the urea trick! Way back in the mid-‘80s to the early-‘90s, I owned a diesel Rabbit, then a diesel Jetta. In those days, diesel passenger-vehicle emissions were still largely unregulated, so I didn’t have to deal with the urea bit...

During that time, I’d also moved for a few years from Austin to North Dallas, then back to Austin. Dallas being somewhat colder in the winter than Austin, I’ll never forget what it’s like starting those diesels on cold days:

Contrary to the popular stereotypes, those VW small diesels started up quickly — in fact, much more quickly than typical gasoline engines of the day! (That is, after you glow the glow plugs for 5-10 seconds.) In fact, I developed a technique of “flicking the key” to run the starter for just a half a crankshaft revolution. As soon as one cylinder fired, it was started, very reliably. In sub-freezing temperatures I had to run the starter motor for perhaps a second, but it would still start up very quickly and reliably.

However!

You would *never believe* how violently those engines would vibrate while they warmed up in the winter! Oh heck, forget “vibrating”; forget “shaking” it was like my own private California earthquake! Portable too! The top of the dashboard would shake — really, literally — about 3/4 inch! The dashboard was truly “a blur”! And the noise... Dang!

I’ll also never forget the blackened oil... “Perfectly normal, nothing to see here!”

 

I did not see that coming either.