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Mercury - good news (sort of)

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    That is mercury the element, not the planet nor ankle-winged god.

    Concerns over mercury levels in fish may be unfounded

    Authors find that little human mercury exposure comes from fish. That's the good news part. The bad news part is herbal teas and wine.

    Vaccine preservatives and dental amalgam were not mentioned :rolleyes:
     
  2. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I'll repeat my first hand experience here. Had myself checked for mercury since I eat a LOT of gulf seafood. None detected. That was surprising since there are a lot of coal power plants along the Gulf of Mexico.

    However arsenic levels were high, but just below threshold for any actions needed. Have not found where that is coming from yet, but trying to find out.
     
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  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I remembered that. The article mentioned herbal tea, beer and wine. Since these come from growing plants, not food-chain biomagnification like for tuna and other top-predator fish, it leads to a question.

    Some growing plants concentrate particular metals, that is, the plant tissue concentrations are higher than the soil concentrations. Others do the opposite. This has been studied, but I would not call it all figured out. This clinical study might lead towards a closer examination of this in plant species that cover the most of human ingestion (one form or another) . A hundred species would be a good start, and that would seem theoretically manageable. I reckon that $1000 of analytical costs* would give adequate statistical power per species.

    That goes on the 'maybe to do' list after the government reboots.

    *there are countries with lower analytical costs, but keep it in USA and stimulate the economy:)
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Likely drinking water. When the EPA lowered the max limit, our town was over it. Arsenic levels commonly get higher in wells running low, which is where our municipal water comes from.
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    via internet search I find that arsenic test kits are widely available. Making no specific recommendations.

    Fl_P_D, you have not by any chance made any major constructions with pressure-treated lumber?
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My first thought was 'how often do take dinner with your elderly, female relatives' but I remembered this report:
    Source: Report: 'Worrisome' levels of arsenic in rice – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs
    I don't remember reading any follow-up.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    No, but I eat....wait, whoa, better not go there.
     
  8. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    OK, where the 83% came from then? After all, mercury dental fillings are safe according to ADA.
     
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Believe pressure treated wood in USA is no longer arsenic. But arsenic is everywhere.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    About Jan 2004 arsenic was no longer to be used in PTL. Stocks on hand were sold ( I guess) and if you saw into the old stuff, well it's still in there. Canada banned such PTL earlier I think - anyone know the details?
     
  11. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Not entirely. Mercury is a hazardous substance before it's put in your mouth, and after it is removed. I don't quite understand the magic that makes it safe while its in your mouth.:eek:
     
  12. ursle

    ursle Gas miser

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    Exactly, the same "fairy" that makes vaccines safe, fooling all the people all of the time, err, it's my way or the highway, err, because someone said so on the internet...
     
  13. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    Because chemistry matters? I really don't know about amalgam, but thinking Mercury is dangerous in ALL configuration is just as flawed as thinking Sodium is dangerous in all configurations just because if you stick metallic Sodium in your mouth your head will explode.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is, but it took a year or two before all the lead paint was sold after that ban.
     
  15. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    The mercury that goes into your mouth as amalgam fillings is the the same as the the mercury that comes out when an amalgam filling is removed. The chemistry is obvious - however damaging mercury is outside the mouth, it's just as damaging inside the mouth.

    The "safety" of dental mercury is medical politics. The chemistry says it's damaging.
     
  16. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    Some reliable cites, please, and not just from the usual scare tactics websites.

    Here are some that say mercury amalgam is safe both inside and outside the mouth.
     
  17. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    In all fairness, the definition of "safe" can be true in a narrow sense and not true in a broad sense.

    From your link--Statements like: "No controlled studies have been published demonstrating systemic adverse effects from amalgam restorations." is not hardly any different than "No controlled studies have been performed to check for adverse effects from amalgam restorations".

    Continuing: Another conclusion of the report stated that, aside from rare instances of local side effects of allergic reactions, "the small amount of mercury released from amalgam restorations, especially during placement and removal, has not been shown to cause any … adverse health effects."

    This shows the difference between narrow and broad. "Narrow" means most studies have not found a big bad effect. "Broad" means no study has found zero effect. I certainly have a mouthful of Mercury and the positive effect still looks to be much better than letting my teeth rot. Yet many dentist today are using something other than Mercury Amalgam due to safety or safety perception alone, and not without some justification.
     
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  18. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    Here's the Quackwatch page on amalgam removal scams, with many more references.
     
  19. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    For a start, here's an OSHA page on mercury in dentistry: 01/09/2012 - Dental office employers with one or more employees must comply with the OSH Act.

    OSHA cares about the workplace, in this case dentists and people working with dental materials. There is this magic boundary between the dental office and inside a patient's mouth. Once hazardous mercury moves from the dentist's hand to a patient's mouth, the FDA takes over. A hazardous substance is magically transformed into being safe by the boundary between OSHA and FDA.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    RobH, I am going to take a shot at defining what you called magic.

    It is amalgam, a chemistry word from a time when chemistry was less understood in detail. A quaint word perhaps, but it survives in general usage. Mercury reacts, rapidly and quantitatively, with gold, silver, and other metals 'nearby' on the periodic table. These reactions are irreversible at ambient temperatures. At a few hundred oC they can be reversed.

    Dental amalgams are a subset. They have been outlawed in some countries already. In the dental office, before the mercury reacts with the other metals, it is able to volatilize and there is the human exposure requiring some OSHA-like activity. After it reacts, and is filling that hole in your teeth, the mercury is not volatile. It is one of your minor envtl exposure pathways. What are your major pathways depends on what you eat and drink.

    Finding mercury in field settings is part of ecotoxicology. The most common and effective way to trap mercury at the nanogram level is with a piece of gold. To release the Hg into your 'counting machine', you heat up the gold. Sure, it is a more complicated, but that is enough for now. People really do this.

    Some things appear magic because there is a mismatch between technology and one's understanding of the technology. There's no shame in that.
     
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