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messing with CAN Bus data

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by timh2870, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. timh2870

    timh2870 New Member

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    Does anyone have any experience with changing variables in either the hybrid ecu or the battery ecu? specifically is it possible to change "batt block num" to something other than 14? How about the discharge/charge power settings? My '07 with 204k currently reads 100kw and 20kw... when I first got the car a month ago, discharge was at 50kw, so I know it is possible to change those two numbers... not that either of those discharge levels make any sense when the battery is fused at 125 amps.

    Has anyone grafted in the 330v pack from a highlander hybrid/rx400h or something else? If so, how? Did you have to resort to trickery or did you get the new battery ecu to cooperate with the hybrid ecu?
     
  2. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    No it's not possible to change any of those values. Unless you would reprogram the entire control unit.

    Battery Ecu calculates those values from data it gets from hybrid battery so they change all the time.

    One thing that has been done is to send messages to hybrid vehicle control unit through CAN that appear to be from Battery Ecu. That way you can effect how hybrid system works.
     
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  3. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    I wouldn’t assume that the Data List values, as you’d see in a Toyota Techstream diagnostic system, can be changed. The fact that an ECU has been programmed to respond to, say, a Mode $21 request to read diagnostic data (see the SAE J2190 standard) doesn’t imply that the ECU has also been programmed to recognize any CAN message that would alter those data.

    If you’re curious about the battery ECU, you might find the following pages of interest:

    Landspeed's HV battery + ECU teardown, analysis, experiment, upgrade thread | PriusChat

    Prius PHEV TechInfo - My wiki
     
  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    You're saying the Discharge Control Limit was 100kw and your Charge Control Limit was 20kw? Where did you read that? Using what device?

    I try not to ever say something is impossible, but that 100kw number is making me want to....

    In regard to the larger battery pack from a HyHy...how much experience do you have with working on a Prius HV system? Is this type of modification something you have experience in?

    I couldn't even begin to guess what problems you would run into trying to shoehorn a HyHy HV battery into a Prius. There is just so much that's different, physically and electrically.
     
  5. timh2870

    timh2870 New Member

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    Torque app, cheap ELM327 adapter, Android phone. Mode/PID 21CF, variables E and F. formula is n-64. I'm guessing that these are some trip points, as the normal operating range has to be +/- 20kW, given the fuse. I've never seen currents over 125 amps in the app, even in ev mode or ice kill mode, but that has to go through the can bus and then over bluetooth to the phone, so it only updates a few times a second. Pulse currents may be higher.
     
  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Kind of what I was thinking....if you're going to try to become familiar with a Prius, and especially if you want to experiment, you had better get techstream. Otherwise you're spitting into the wind. I find it very hard to believe any Gen 2 Prius, ever, has had a 100kw Discharge Control Limit.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not worth the trouble. many have tried, few have succeeded
     
  8. timh2870

    timh2870 New Member

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    All the more reason to have a go at it. The gen 2 Prius has finally gotten to the point where they are cheap enough to pick up just to tinker with, so why not?
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    couldn't agree more. all the best, and please keep us posted!(y)
     
  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The price of the Prius isn't going to be the problem.....

    Is the Prius inverter and DC/DC converter rated for the Hylander battery?

    Can you just use a Highlander inverter? What mods would be needed to physically install it? What about electronic communication and operation?

    Are the Highlander/rx400 HV battery electronics going to be compatible with the Prius systems?

    Does the Highlander/rx400 even have the same type ECU in the HV battery that the Prius has? I don't seem to remember there being one, so how would it even begin to communicate?

    There's going to be a bit of fabrication work to get the case to mount. You'll end up eliminating either the rear seat or part of the trunk, depending on mounting position/location.

    Doesn't the AC unit have it's own inverter? Is it compatible with the higher voltage?

    It's a heck of a project. A lot more than just a battery swap. Sometimes, the only way to find out if something can be done is to jump right in and see what happens.

    I wonder how that fuel tank swap is going for the other guy? Wasn't he trying to install a Camry fuel tank or something into a Gen 2? I seem to remember him saying it was easy/squeezy or something. Haven't heard anything on that in a long time...I'd be interested in reading an update on that.

    Corolla to Prius gas tank swap | PriusChat

    Guess he reached the October cutoff date and had to surrender for a while since he was moving to Oregon. Hopefully, once he gets situated, we'll get an update. Don't they have vehicle inspections in that area? Going to be a tough sell with a bunch of emission system CELs.

    From the Oregon DMV website for all cars being newly registered in the state:

    Oregon DEQ Vehicle Test Methods
    Tailpipe emissions test
    (1995 and older model years)
    At a Clean Air Station, a DEQ inspector places a probe into the vehicle’s tailpipe to ensure vehicle emissions are not exceeding standards.
    On-board diagnostics test
    (1996 through current model years)
    The vast majority of vehicles receive this test. At a Clean Air Station, a DEQ inspector uses a plug-in cable to transmit data between the vehicle’s on-board diagnostics (OBD) computer and DEQ’s computer to ensure that pollution control equipment is working properly.
     
    #10 TMR-JWAP, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sometimes, they just disappear into oblivion, rather than come back with their tail between their legs...
     
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  12. GrGramps

    GrGramps Active Member

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    The first to try something may not find the answer here.
     
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  13. timh2870

    timh2870 New Member

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    I'm going to try and answer your questions as best as I can, copy and paste style.

    Is the Prius inverter and DC/DC converter rated for the Hylander battery?
    Yes. The Prius inverter takes the battery voltage and bumps it up to around 500 volts to drive MG1, MG2, and the A/C compressor. The battery in the Highlander is only 330 volts (I have rebuilt one before for a customer)

    Can you just use a Highlander inverter? What mods would be needed to physically install it? What about electronic communication and operation?
    Possibly. The only difference afaik is that the Highlander has a fourth IGBT bridge to drive MGR.

    Are the Highlander/rx400 HV battery electronics going to be compatible with the Prius systems?
    Not likely. Everything communicates over the CAN bus, but pids/ variables/ etc may be different. There are also likely values that the hybrid ecu is expecting, and will throw a check engine light and the red triangle of death if they are wrong.

    Does the Highlander/rx400 even have the same type ECU in the HV battery that the Prius has? I don't seem to remember there being one, so how would it even begin to communicate?
    Yes, the Highlander has a battery ecu, and yes it uses CAN. No, I don't know if they are the same type. This is related to the question above. It will just have to be tried.

    There's going to be a bit of fabrication work to get the case to mount. You'll end up eliminating either the rear seat or part of the trunk, depending on mounting position/location.
    That's what the cargo hold-downs are for :)

    Doesn't the AC unit have it's own inverter? Is it compatible with the higher voltage?
    no. yes.
     
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