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Featured Mileage calculator chart

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Ronald Doles, Apr 12, 2020.

  1. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    I found an interesting mileage calculator the other day on the Ecomodder.com website.
    Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator - EcoModder.com

    You enter a number of parameters that apply to your car and it calculates a table of mileages and other parameters based on different vehicle speeds.

    I have obtained the parameters for my Prius V and they are:
    Total Weight 3340 for the car + me 205 = 3545
    Cd = .29
    Rolling resistance = (this varies with tires and driveline losses from .008 to .15) I used .011
    Engine efficiency = 41%
    Temperature = 68 deg
    Frontal area = 23 ft cu

    I calculated the frontal area from sketchandcalc.com website app.
    You take a picture of your vehicle, import it into this app. You use a pen tool to draw the outline to form a closed irregular shape. I included in the picture a pizza box that was 10.5" square which was also in the frame with the car to calibrate the scaling factor for area.

    The biggest factor for mileage is "how you drive". The calculations say I would theoretically get 54 mpg at 70 mph. I got about 50 mpg on a trip. I am not sure that I would have ever gotten 54. We bought this Prius used and the dealer put a cheap set of tires on it that are not low rolling resistance. I also run the recommended tire pressure.

    Prius V mileage chart.PNG

    This is what we will do when we are stuck at home for days on end and are running out of normal things to do.
     
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  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    How or where do you find a 'v' engine efficiency that high? It is still a Gen3, which was still (barely) sub-40%. Toyota didn't break 40% until well after Gen3 was introduced.

    Toyota’s World’s Most Thermal Efficient Engine; 38.5 percent, Turbo Joining! | PriusChat

    For something closer to reality, set engine efficiency to 0.385, and parasitic overhead to 400 watts. The later item will produce a low-speed mpg peak, with reduced mpgs at lower speeds, 'sorta' consistent with what the low-ago Japanese commuter-hypermilers were recording.

    For a real-world check point, look at this chart:
    Updated MPG vs MPH chart | PriusChat
     
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  3. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    2016 Toyota Prius Engine To Boast 40 Percent Thermal Efficiency

    I didn't set a value for parasitic overhead so that could be a reason that my MPG values are a little high. Where did you get the 400 watts from?
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    2016 was the first year of the gen 4 Prius.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    40 percent is for the Gen4 Liftback, 2016 and later. Your 'v' falls under this line from that article:

    "The 1.8-liter engine in the current third generation Prius is at 38.5 percent."
    That is an empirical estimate from other PC members, posted long ago. It represents the computers and ECUs and inverters and displays and brake system and whatever other electrical items must be running whenever the car is driving.
     
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  6. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    Once I plugged in the 38.5 thermal efficiency, 400 watts and ambient of 68 degrees, the mileage at 70 mph was 49.78 mpg. That is surprisingly close to the actual mileage recorded on my scangauge.while using cruise control on a couple of trips.

    Thanks for the info.
     
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  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I probably should have said 'guestimate' instead of 'empirical estimate', as I don't recall much real measurement behind it. So the fact that it produced a chart coming so close to your actual mileage is more good luck than actual accuracy.

    I'm remembering two different paths to that guesstimate. One was from the Japanese hypermiling community, using engineering and empirical curve fitting to produce a reasonably accurate maximum mpg vs speed equation. That equation contained a fixed overhead term that can be translated to watts. But that was long ago, it may be difficult to dig it up out of the PC archives to get its actual number.

    The other path was from folks using the Prius as a stationary electric generator, adding inverters from either the 12V bus or the hybrid battery, to produce 120VAC. In this mode, the ICE will cycle on and off, charging the battery a bit then shutting down for a while. I'm remembering the 400 watt guesstimate as derived from their observations of the engine on-off time ratios, and of the hourly fuel consumption when powering known loads. So it is a coarse figure, not fine tuned.
     
  8. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Nice indeed! But also do take in account that the ICE does not work 38.5% thermal efficiency at all loads...
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    many get lower than 38% efficiency by simply driving much of the time in cold weather ... or short distance ... rain ... hilly areas .... poor maintenance ... poor driving habits ... heavy loads etc. Some are variables we have control over - some we don't.
    .
     
  10. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

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    I assumed that at least part of that 400 watts was mechanical losses converted to watts.

    A quick calc and 400 watts at 12 volts is 33 amps which on a 46AH battery would be a significant load but the 12 volt supply only powers the various lights, instruments, processors and controllers and probably the brake booster pump so current in the 30 amp range is not likely.

    The largest losses would likely be in the power semiconductors of the inverter. I have seen 120 amps during regen braking on my scangauge. 120 amps may be the current limit of the inverter. That amount of regen current could possibly generate a 1000 watts of heat for the short term. Several hundred watts is probably a reasonable average loss on a high voltage inverter. Toyota wouldn't have put the separate cooling system in otherwise.
     
  11. ice9

    ice9 Active Member

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    So I guess the moral to the story is that, if you want more than 100 mpg, drive like the tortoise not the hare.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I think the mechanical losses belong under the 'drivetrain efficiency' line, which is defaulted to 95%. The 400 watts should represent the electrical baseload needed to operate the car, independent of speed.

    That baseload term is needed to show that mpg doesn't keep increasing as vehicle speed drops all the way down to walking speed or a crawl. It shows that maximum MPG happens at some higher speed, then the fixed baseload starts to overwhelm the propulsion power as speed goes lower. In past threads, this maximum mpg speed has been determined as very roughly 15 mph from one source, and somewhere in the 10-20 mph range from another.
    The baseload is not just on 12V. It should include the basic minimum power needed to operate the high voltage inverters and motor controllers too.
    All these are Toyota-HSD-specific things whose details are not properly rolled in to a generic calculator. E.g. real-world results will show some bobbles at speeds where the ICE can shut down and the car can run on just electric, with occasional ICE operation to partially recharge the battery. This calculator is too simple to cover such sorts of things.