1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Mileage change

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by yensid, Oct 29, 2005.

Page 2 of 2
  1. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    3,650
    6
    0
    Location:
    Olympia Wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I want to understand this post. Did they replace one of the ECUs? If that is the case there is some learning that the ECU does in controlling the systems. With this there is an improvement over time. It has been suggested even the reprogramming of the HV ECU evokes this relearning. A number have reported a slump then improvement. NCF suggests, but does not state that this may be true. It is not clear weather this is the HV ECU or the ECM ECU.
     
    #21 hdrygas, Dec 5, 2005
  2. yensid

    yensid New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    13
    0
    0

    What is SKS?

    I think my dealer has really screwed up my car. My mileage for the first 6 weeks of owning this car was a steady 48-49 mpg. Now its rare that I get more than 36 mpg with road miles and 32 with more city miles than highway. It's like I am driving a gas car with little power.

    To make matters worse my dealer will not return my calls and will not offer me anything on trade for this car beyond normal. My contact with Toyota US has not been any better. They want me to work with the dealership and the dealership just wants me to go away. I really feel like Toyota has left me out to dry.

    I don't know what I am going to do at this time. Dodge has a new program where they buy your gas for 2 years. Honda also offers a hybrid, that is comparable - the civic and one that gives better mileage - the insight.

    In any case I think I am done with Toyotas.

    Rick (one PISSED OFF Toyota Owner)
     
    #22 yensid, Dec 28, 2005
  3. yensid

    yensid New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    13
    0
    0

    Well after 5 weeks since the ECU change it is getting a wopping 38 mpg on occasion. Mostly I still get my 35 - 36 MPG.

    I am not sure what will happen in the next few weeks but I am considering showing up at my dealers sales events and talking to the prospects on my experiences with the dealership and Toyota. I might even offer them the Honda's dealers number. I wonder if that would get their attention. I doubt they would call the police, could not afford that type of publicity. I could call the news channels or maybe the papers.

    Rick
    2002 Prius (Lemon)
     
    #23 yensid, Dec 28, 2005
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    SKS is something only on the '04MR cars--smart key system. Never mind for you.

    I think you are completely over-reacting here...just my opinion. 36mpg in winter for a new driver (which you are) on a 1st generation Prius is just not that bad. I see no reason to think you have a 'lemon'.

    Maybe I'm completely wrong, maybe something did get screwed up and you really would be getting 50mpg with your drive, your driving style and your car if they did screw something up, but I doubt it. Look at greenhybrid.com and their mpg stats for the 1G Prius. Avg. MPG there is 45mpg....that's an average and includes all comers winter and summer. You're only a few percentages off of that.

    Find someone else in your area that has a 1G Prius and swap cars with them for a few days or a short drive and compare mileage, power, etc...esp. helpful for an experienced owner to drive your car...if they agree with you that the car seems to be under performing then perhaps you have a case.

    Have you read the article on MPG in the Knowledge Base section here? What temp do you run your heat at? Is the car in a heated garage or kept outside. Do you do long highways speed drives, short city drives, or moderate speed and moderate distance drives? How many cold starts a day?

    There are just so many variables and you seem to only want to cast blame while still getting 36mpg in winter.
     
    #24 efusco, Dec 28, 2005
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Also, look at the famous John1701a.com's site and his spreadsheet for his '01 Prius.

    His first December of owning the car his mileage was as low as 34mpg for one tank and a high of 43mpg. Albeit that was in Minnesota, but still, those numbers are very consistant with what you're seeing. Note, also, that as he gained experience driving the car his winter mileage improved.

    http://john1701a.com/prius/spreadsheets/Pr...et_Lifetime.xls
     
    #25 efusco, Dec 28, 2005
  6. narf

    narf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    611
    44
    4
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    I brought my '05 in for the recall/reflash about 3 months ago. When I got it back the mileage had decreased about 10 MPG, and it seemed like it spent most of it's time charging the battery. Sounds just like your symptoms. I wonder if they reflashed the car for the recent recall when it was in the first time? Anyway, in my case the change was temporary. It seemed like the car had to spend some time recalibrating things. after about 1000 miles all is back to normal. My mileage spans from about 50 mpg cruising at 65 mph in 50 degrees no wind, to about 42 mpg running short trips in cold weather
     
    #26 narf, Dec 28, 2005
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    He has an '02 and doesn't get the flash you had.
     
    #27 efusco, Dec 28, 2005
  8. yensid

    yensid New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    13
    0
    0

    Here is the latest...

    My dealer kept my car two days. Verified that I am getting a whopping 38 mpg at best. I had their car, a prius, the two days and averaged 46.7 at 80 MPH on cruise at just over 500 miles. I was happy with the performance of the 05 prius while I had it. My concern is that they have found NOTHING wrong with my car :( . In fact they have come back to me and told me that my prius is OPERATING AT MANUFACTURERS SPECIFICATIONS :eek: . If that is the case then the car I was loaned must be operating ABOVE MANUFACTURERSPECIFICATIONS :rolleyes: . I am really at the end of my rope with this car and Toyota. I feel that I have a REAL LEMON ;) and that my car while once operated correctly now cannot be FIXED because the mechanics CANNOT Find the PROBLEM. :unsure:

    I don't think I'll keep this car and will be happy to purchase a new Honda Civic Hybrid or maybe just drop the hybrid thing and get me a jetta diesel and run bio diesel in it.

    At present my dealer and Toyota Southeast is not interested in helping me or in providing me anything meaningful in trade in on a used 05 prius. If this is the way they stand behind these cars I'll find another brand.

    Rick (One very PISSED OFF and ABUSED Toyota Owner) <_<

    TOYOTA SUCKS..........................
     
    #28 yensid, Jan 5, 2006
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,933
    16,157
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Really sorry that dealer is playing hardball with you. I've noticed even with my techs that they're always quick to make sure nothing is wrong rather than trying to find the source of the problem.

    The only thing I can think of is sell it and you can probably recover 80-90% of the cost and yeah, choose one of your said options above.
     
    #29 Tideland Prius, Jan 5, 2006
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    an '02 will get lower gas mileage than an '05--they're not the same car at all.

    highway driving is far different than city driving. Did the dealer take your car on a 500 mile 80mph cruise control drive or are you comparing apples to oranges.

    I'm sorry to say that, at this point, based on the info you've given us that I don't think Toyota has done anything wrong here. 38mph in city driving in winter, presumably short trips for a 1G Prius is not bad at all.

    I'm sorry you're frustrated and disappointed. I can suggest trying a different dealer's service dept. and test it against another 1G Prius.
     
    #30 efusco, Jan 5, 2006
  11. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    3,650
    6
    0
    Location:
    Olympia Wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I agree you should not compare a first generation US Prius to a second generation US Prius. There were some significant changes made between the two cars. The battery, inverter, regenerative braking systems are very different. You are doing well for a new Prius driver of a first generation Prius. Your mileage will improve as you learn more about the car and how to get the best from it.
     
    #31 hdrygas, Jan 5, 2006
  12. yensid

    yensid New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    13
    0
    0



    I just read an article in Diesel Performance comparing the Jetta TDI to the 05 Prius. The prius lost 47 mpg to 41 mpg. but the biggest loss is that the TDI can run on 95% recycled vegetable oil while the prius must pay for GAS... Guess the TDI could pay for itself over the life of the car. Since the TDI can get 500,000 on the engine and fuel costs are near ZERO, over teh life of the car you would save almost as much money in fuel cost as the TDI costs. That's almost driving for FREE. I don't think the prius wins in the case; 1G or 2G!!! :D
     
    #32 yensid, Jan 7, 2006
  13. yensid

    yensid New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    13
    0
    0
    This should give you a chuckle. My dealer provided me with Toyotas latest explanation of why gas mileage in the prius does not match what is found on the window sticker.


    Seems that highway mileage is determined by running a level course (10 miles) with no stops at 48 MPH to get high way mileage. City mileage is determined by running a 11mile course level again and with 23 stops and an average speed of 20 MPH.

    How many of you drive 48 MPH on the highways? or 20 MPH in town?

    Are you gettign the feeling that you have been sold a load of Buicks and Caddilacs...
     
    #33 yensid, Jan 29, 2006
  14. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    465
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    well, you do know that real world driving will change your mpg... and that there is a little spiel on the sticker that says that your mileage may vary... right?

    toyota is not responsible for epa's testing. they're required to post whatever numbers the epa comes up with. and all other vehicles are tested in the same way, so you would expect variations in other vehicles too.

    this has been discussed to no end.
     
    #34 galaxee, Jan 29, 2006
  15. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    716
    76
    0
    Location:
    Effingham
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Actually, before I got my 05 prius, I had an 03. I had the same exact problem with a whole bunch of error messages on the mfd, and the dash. I also noticed that the gas, and electric motors were functioning slightly differently, the gas didn't hardly kick in at all that day. I called, and they said to drive it in to the dealership. I soon got my car back, and they said they had to replace the computer for a known code issue. I noticed afterwards that the mileage significantly dropped after the new computer was installed. I used to get 48 or so in the old style prius, and it droped to about 39-41 afterwards. Then I decided to give the new one a try simply because it was such a neato car. The best mpg I have gotten in the 05 is about 53mpg, and that suprisingly happens in WI when i go to visit my brother, here in flat IL it seems to get about 43 on average. So the hills, and cold weather seem to help it! I just don't know if i'm doing anything wrong. I am going to take time someday to check the oil, i've already checked the tire pressure, and use all the suggested driving techniques. Also a huge question I have for all of you is this: are things different where you are? because traffic here is pretty nuts and there is hardly no way to effectively drive my prius without seriously angering alot of fellow drivers on the road.
     
    #35 brad_rules_man, Jan 30, 2006
  16. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    716
    76
    0
    Location:
    Effingham
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I am always in a constant competition with my dad. I have an 05 prius, and he has an 05 jetta tdi. He, and I can drive his car, and accidentally get 50 mpg easily, while driving in a fun manner. I can try like heck, and get maybe 45 or 48 in my prius. I can usually get 55 for a while, but it seems that it catches up with me and the mileage goes down before the end of the tank :p I love the prius though it is an excellent and cool car. I wouldn't trade it for anything, but from time to time I drive the diesel :p
     
    #36 brad_rules_man, Jan 30, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 2