Mileage tax on hybrids/ev's?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by massparanoia, May 18, 2012.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    This varies by state. In Pa it's a flat rate per vehicle type. Trucks pay more than cars, except SUV's which are classified as a station wagon.
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    We assembled the haulpaks onsite, it takes about 11 months each. The fun transport fees were the 6 autoclaves, each one was driven the 290 miles from Salt lake city at 2 miles an hour, while traffic on I-80 was diverted to the other two lanes. $1 million in fees to rent I-80 each time. Our engineer who measured the Carlin tunnels did not include the lights, so each time we had to uninstall all the lights and reinstall them. We gave them newer lights that were easier to uninstall, after the second trip.

    [​IMG]

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    (sample autoclaves from another location, so you see the issues)
     
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  3. mmcdonal

    mmcdonal Active Member

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    It costs money, and burns lots of fuel to mow that grass. I thought VA planted a lot of Tiger Lillies in medians. Maryland planted a lot of wild flowers and red poppies and only mows a berm about 5 feet in on most medians. Looks very nice. They actually stopped during the droughts in the 90's in some places.
     
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  4. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Thanks, that's hot..
     
  5. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I have never lived in a state with flat rates, but Oregon, the state most rumored to be considering a EV tax has them.
     
  6. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Yea, tax this and tax that, that'll fix 'em. How about nevermind taxing this and taxing that and instead, we break our gumments chops about fixing what they already tax the hell out of us for.
     
  7. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Well there's a price to be paid for all those tax cuts over the last 30 years, crowded old schools, bad roads and bridges. Nice having the lowest tax rates of any of the advanced nations but then we have the biggest trade deficit, biggest debt, most prisoners and most expensive military and have been a constant state of war for the last 20 years. Low taxes are costly.
     
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  8. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    There's a difference between vehicles needed for a certain purpose (e.g. hauling freight) vs. solo drivers or those w/minimal cargo and passengers driving 5200+ lb. battering rams of death when they could be driving a vehicle more commensurate w/needs.

    But back to the first issue, there's no reason why large vehicles like commercial trucks, big rigs, buses, etc. shouldn't be more efficient. There can be incentives to encourage it.
     
  9. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Larger trucks are way more efficient. If a Prius weight about 3500 lbs and gets 50 mpg, that is about 70 lbs of weight moved for every 1 mpg. A newer semi will get around 8 mpg, and will weigh about 80,000 lbs loaded. That is 10,000 lbs of weight moved for each mpg.

    This is why a diesel train, which have engines displacing up to 12000+ cubic inches, are more efficient than cars, or trucks.

    Most efficient engine in the world (25,480L max displacement):Most powerful diesel engine in the world - Image 1 of 8
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Seems to be linked to the state's taxing method. We have an income tax in Pa. I don't think my parents do in NC, but they have the property tax on vehicles and a higher sales tax on more things.
     
  11. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Yep, low taxes are costly, so let's not fix the problem and just add more taxes that will be wasted, like the $500,000 shrimp treadmill.

     
  12. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    In Maryland and Virginia, the state/local government have increasing tolls on bridges and toll roads, increasing the cost to register/license a vehicle, increasing parking fees, increase traffic violation/tickets fines, but they have stop short of increasing the gasoline tax.

    WRT BEV and PHEV -- in Montgomery County Maryland, residential electricity is subject to a local sale tax of about 1.4 cents per kwh. While the electric rate is 10.8 cents per kwh, but after adding delivery charges and taxes the final cost of electricity is in reality 16.8 cents per kwh. For a BEV or PHEV to achieve an equivalent to 60 mpg with 1 gallon of 10% ethanol 87 oct regular gas which is priced now at 3.75 per gallon... A BEV or PHEV would need to achieve atleast 2.7 miles/kwh in its electric power only mode to get a 60mpg equivalent and a 3.13 miles/kwh under all electric power to get a 70 mpg equivalent.

    A Nissan Leaf is rated at 3.16 miles/kwh.
    A Chevy Volt is rated at 2.93 miles/kwh.
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Yep. No individual income tax in texas. Flat tax on vehicles with the price going up if its over 6000lbs, then again over 10,000lbs. We do tax the refineries and the fuel to pay for the roads.

    The state gets much more money in sales tax from a new vehicle, so taxing its price in registration would seem to encourage keeping older less efficient vehicles on the road. California does this, and as a double wammy lets those old cars pollute more too. Not a good thing. I really want a guzzler tax to go through as there is a budget short fall. Since the feds don't tax trucks and suvs that get bad mileage some texas legislators tried to add a tax at the time of sale and registration to help pay for the roads. There are problems with air pollution in our big cities in texas, and no one wants to discourage plug ins here.
     
  14. walter Lee

    walter Lee Hypermiling Padawan

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    During the Reagan Administration, the federal subsidies/support for roads were cut back drastically, so each state had to cover the slack. Tolls and state fuel taxes have been making up for this slack ever since then and I expect they will increase significantly in the coming years.
     
  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    While true, I don't understand the pertanance. States are quite different. Many states relly on free roads, others toll roads. All of them seem to get funded by both state and federal fuel taxes. Certainly the toll road states can charge for for plug ins on the toll roads if they want:mad: But its not going to bring in any kind of revenue. Oregon is free to do this in fuel taxes, its a federal system and that power goes to the states. It does not look like good policy though.
     
  16. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    That's nothing compared to the $30B V22. You could make the shrimp talk Mandarin for that kind of money.

    But we were talking about consequences of US having lowest tax rate of the developed nations. Consequences such as massive budget deficits, debt over 100% of GDP, interest on debt 10% of Federal budget, overcrowded, crumbling schools, over crowded crumbling highways and of particular relevance to gasoline taxes, much lower energy efficiency than countries with high gasoline tax. US is 50% less energy efficient.

    While revenue is a good side effect of the tax, the main purpose is to get people to be more energy efficient. The strategy works in Europe and will work in the US.
     
  17. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    ^
    Hard proof that it works? Or just hearsay.
     
  18. lamebums

    lamebums Member

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    Hi ProximalSuns--

    I wish you would come here to extol the virtues of conservation. Perhaps cajole or encourage it. Explain why conserving resources is such a good thing.

    But you come with threats of fine, jail, or utter financial ruin just to achieve your narrow-minded goals, which need not be repeated here, since we're all perfectly aware of them - cutting $1.4T in non-existent oil war spending, etc.
     
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  19. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    You'd have to quote what I said since there doesn't appear to be anything about "jail" or "financial ruin" in any of my comments. You just made them up and then argue with them, that's called a straw man argument.

    As to the $1.4T of military spending documented above from US 2012 budget, since it is 50-70% for oil wars, waged continuously for the last 20 years, reducing US oil imports eliminates this cost for US.

    The oil also has other economic cost in the $500B per year oil import trade deficit, this is a foreign tax on US economy.

    By raising US gasoline taxes we can reduce US oil consumption. Gasoline tax has been a policy tool used in Europe and has been successful in Europe being 50% more energy efficient that US. Gasoline use has run up $14T in debt and the gas tax will help pay off the debt that gasoline use created. Gas tax will reduce oil usage and avoid future costs of trade deficit and military spending to secure oil supplies. The problem pays for the solution.

    If US becomes 50% more energy efficient and focuses on oil use, we can eliminate the $500B oil import trade tax and the $500B per year in military costs to secure Middle East oil.
     
  20. ghosteh

    ghosteh Member

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    If I had to guess, I'd say that we were a LONG way from roads filled with alternative fuel vehicles.

    Higher fuel taxes are the best route, and if (someday) electric cars become common, tax tires. That should work until the "back-to-the-future" hover conversions.
     
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