Mirai gets 67 MPGe - official

Discussion in 'Fuel Cell Vehicles' started by telmo744, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I can't help but notice the fuel cell partnership left the 200gram/mile PiP off their chart. Was that because Toyota (hopefully only temporarily) killed it off? Or because Toyota only sold 'em in CARB states.
    One more thing - Doesn't hydrogen retail for ~ $14+/liter? Seems like that'd mean Toyota's hydrogen car is a lot more expensive to operate than the chart implied.
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    #101 hill, Mar 16, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  2. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That was actually an LA times graphic. I'm sure it wasn't included because production was cancelled. Then next one should be better still ;-) The graphic used the UCS data for hydrogen which included much less carbon dioxide than the stations actually produce. Still I say lets be patient. CARB says 50 stations by the end of the year, but still few cars. Let's check back at the end of 2017 and see if they are 10% renwable, or 33% renewable and what percetage each vehicle leases. I don't think we have good data until then. All we have is the fact that renewables are not being built as promised.

    If LA times does a graphic then, say at the end of 2017 we can have better numbers. It should also include the percent of carbon free sources for electricity. In 2014 it was 34.1% fossil free and 15% unknown (probably combination of natural gas and renewables with their certificates sold). I would guess in 2016 it will be close to 38%.
     
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The European spec i3 REX fuel tank is about a half gallon larger. The real emasculation was in the hybrid control software.
     
  4. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    The other points have already been debunked here (though I don't understand why you keep bringing them up in every thread – the reality doesn't change), but can you clarify why on earth you're looking at nationwide emissions? Since when can you buy – much less refuel! –The Mirai outside California?
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Going by the low price per kilogram OldNSlow saw, the Mirai will cost a little over $20 to go 100 miles.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    As opposed to $6 in a prius . . . and even less in a PiP ... lower C02 as well. It's no wonder Toyota is reluctant to boast about their potential to make a great plugin. It's got to be a huge dichotomy for Toyota - releasing an even better 2nd gen, after their ad campaign bashed plugin's.
    (shaking head)
    .
     
  7. OldNSlow

    OldNSlow Junior Member

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    I thought Toyota has a new PIP coming, and they are even making the investment to give it a different body from the new Prius ?
     
  8. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    Everything so far has been very low on details. I think there might be some slight body kit adjustments but that doesn't really qualify as an "investment".
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota seems to want to make the PHEV Prius a separate model. Even with a short EV range, a low cost plug in option, like an engine upgrade on other models, could get more people plugging in.
     
  10. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  12. OldNSlow

    OldNSlow Junior Member

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  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Someone among the thousands at work apparently has one of these leased vehicles. I recall the fellow who periodically would show up at work in his leased Mercedes mini SUV hydrogen vehicle had tepid comments about the thing. Maybe I'll leave a note on the Toyota so I can get some feedback from the driver.
    2016-10-12 17.47.40.jpg
    .
     
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  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I wasn't paying attention but the 2016 report is now out. Highlights?
    https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/ab8/ab8_report_2016.pdf
    Other areas of the report raise questions about if there will really be that many vehicles (43,600) in 2022. Chief among them is even with subsidies there won't be enough hydrogen stations to satisfy those drivers.

    I'd say we check back in 2020, and keep the experiment going. My guess is tesla model 3, prius prime, and chevy bolt and volt, will make CARBs pleas for more money for fueling subsides look bad. Perhaps we should see if people like the vehcies with 50 stations, and how they do in Japan before funding the next phase. The 50 stations should provide toyota, hyundai, and honda a good test bed for their vehicles.
     
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  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I wasn't paying attention but the 2016 report is now out. Highlights?
    https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/ab8/ab8_report_2016.pdf
    Other areas of the report raise questions about if there will really be that many vehicles (43,600) in 2022. Chief among them is even with subsidies there won't be enough hydrogen stations to satisfy those drivers.

    I'd say we check back in 2020, and keep the experiment going. My guess is tesla model 3, prius prime, and chevy bolt and volt, will make CARBs pleas for more money for fueling subsides look bad. Perhaps we should see if people like the vehcies with 50 stations, and how they do in Japan before funding the next phase. The 50 stations should provide toyota, hyundai, and honda a good test bed for their vehicles.
     
  16. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    lol what?
    331 vehicles in 2016, and somehow 13,500 vehicles in 2019? Don't make me laugh.
     
  17. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    That was 331 total fcv, many were built in 2014 or 2015. They have decreased the forecast for 2017, but

    There are 22 hydrogen stations now, and they expect 38 by the end of the year, versus 51 that they were projecting a year ago so stations have lagged.

    Still I don't doubt with a big enough subsidy there could be 43,600 in 2022. That is similar to the number of 200+ mile BEVs in just one year in the US, not 6 full years to get there.
     
  18. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    Right, that's what I'm saying, if there's less than 500 vehicles now, how will we get another 13k in just two years?

    I think we will be lucky if we get 3k.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    ah yes - that good ol' free money we call subsidies. After spending roughly ½billion over a ½decade - Toyota pulled out of Formula One racing without a win. Even Toyota supposedly knows when to cut their losses & Give It Up .... but sometimes you just keep going if it's other's money. One of the Cali senators is fighting this kind of foolishness. His coments;
    ".... California has the highest unfunded ‘debt’ of all 50 states.

    This includes unfunded pensions, unfunded retiree medical, and unfunded infrastructure deficits – more than $250 billion that your children and grandchildren will be stuck paying.

    California also has the nation’s highest income taxes, sales taxes, and gas taxes. Yet we have some of the worst road conditions, and biggest infrastructure needs. ...."

    Yep ... all this - & present day fuel cell refuel strategy still primarily just a carbon based non-renewable system
    oh well ...

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    #119 hill, Oct 20, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  20. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    I saw 3 Mirai on my way to L.A. this morning! I saw 4 Tesla on my way to L.A. this morning! I saw 2 volts on my way to L.A. this morning! I saw no I3's, no sparks, no E500's, no Soul EV's, but I did see several hundred Gen II, Gen III and Gen IV this morning along with 2 Gen I's! Also, a half a dozen PriusC and PriusV!! Prius is still in the lead! Go Toyota!!! :):)(y)(y)
     
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