Mirai range maps

Discussion in 'Fuel Cell Vehicles' started by bwilson4web, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    California has installed nearly 40 hydrogen filling stations which defines the usable range. Using the ~300 mile range of the Mirai, we can draw two types of range circles around each station:
    • cross country - how to drive the furtherest distances within todays set of hydrogen stations
    • commuter range - how far from a gas station should one have their home and work
    CROSS COUNTRY RANGE - 150 miles

    For cross country driving, I used circles of 50% radius, ~150 miles. A driver could travel to the edge of the circle and then return to their last gas station. If they found the distant station down for any reason, they could avoid a tow. Of course more adventuresome drivers might use the extreme range but if it doesn't end at an open fuel station, the return trip is on a tow truck.
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    As long as a Mirai cross country drive does not exceed ~150 miles, you can visit areas like Reno Nevada and parts of Northern Mexico. Within overlapping red circles, you can drive straight through AFTER confirming the destination charging station will be open with fuel when you get there. For example trip planning from San Diego to Reno:
    1. Call the Coalinga I10, and Truckee Donner Pass stations to make sure they will be open with fuel when you plan to arrive.
    2. Drive to the Northern most Los Angeles station and top off. Call Coalinga on I10 to make sure they are still open.
    3. Drive to Coalinga I10 and refuel. Call Truckee Donner Pass to make sure they are still open.
    4. If you can find a direct route from Coalinga I10 to Truckee Donner Pass, go for it. The overlapped circles show an area this direct route needs to take.

    COMMUTING RANGE - 21 miles

    For commuting, I used 1/7th of the 50% range circle. This assumes one fill-up each week with a single, daily round trip commute. This relates to what happened when we got our first Prius to replace a 91 Camry.

    I would typically go ~8-9 days between fill-ups. With the Prius, the gas station visits stretched to 18-20 days. Others may be more tolerant of frequent fueling station stops but I hate them. Call this the practical, home-to-job range.
    [​IMG]
    So each day, a Mirai round trip takes 42 miles, 21 * 2. This gives 300 / 42 ~= 7 days before refueling is mandatory. The weekend miles are for groceries and other chores. So you want to have your job and home no more than 21 miles apart with a fueling station in that circle.

    Of course some people like to visit fueling stations so they can expand the circle. Others can 'live on the rim' and displace the center of their job-to-home range. For example, living on the Coalinga I10 rim, commuting to Fresno makes sense. These circles are just a rough guide on how I would plan living with a Mirai.

    As a private pilot, trip planning is an important skill as running out of fuel in flight is not a good idea. So I applied those disciplines to driving a Mirai fuel cell car. Of course there are special pleadings like mountains, detours, and road construction. But at any time, the Mirai driver can make a "U" turn or divert to a fuel station.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I wonder if someone will make a map of hybrid stations similar to supercharger.info ?
    The ability to easily modify the size of those circles and add or remove them from stations is very helpful.
    While I hate fueling stops, I think once a week would be reasonable.
    Doubling the size of those circles for daily trips adds a lot of people.

    I suppose you could have circles with graduated colors radially. Green (center) to red(rim) showing the frequency of fill ups.
     
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  3. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I have only seen 4 Mirai in the wild: 3 privately owned and 1 owned by Caltrans in the Fairfield office. The closest hydrogen refueling stations are in San Ramon or West Sac (both about equidistant from the Caltrans office but in opposite directions).

    I believe there are plans to place 2 additional stations: one in Concord / Walnut Creek and one in Vacaville.

    If that happens, range anxiety will decrease and I bet I’ll see more of them around:).

    Always fun to see one of them in the wild(y).
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Certainly a more sophisticated model could be built. One problem is we don't have a way to keep the operational state of the fuel stations accurate. We can get maps and descriptions but the current operational state is often unknown until you get there.

    The other problem is motivation:
    • hydrogen fool cells - unsustainable, eventually they will fade into obscurity when the subsidies run out.
    • superchargers - I can't use them but I suspect Tesla has the instrumentation to do the job right.
    • gasoline - what I used to drive 700 miles each way between Huntsville AL and Stillwater OK
    I used the Gasbuddy trip planner with the BMW i3-REx gas metrics to plot a route. There were plenty of 24 hour, truck stops along the Interstates but some challenges:
    • Huntsville to Memphis - I had to find a gas station open near Cornith MS. We did but getting a midnight snack, the locals acted as if our BMW i3 was a spaceship.
    • Western Arkansas - a planned truck stop was closed. So I used the 1 gal spare can to reach the next and refuel.
    • Indian Nation Turnpike - only one gas station, very expensive, midway. On the way home, ran out of gas just at the end of the turnpike. Drove on battery 2 miles to the pump with a 1 gal spare can still full.
    Bob Wilson
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I was going to start a separate thread with something Mirai related, but didn't want it to look like some kind of hit piece /exposé. This comes from an insider & it's relating to Mirai sales/leases.
    Remember prior to GM going bankrupt, how they tried to sell off the Hummer line, but even the Chinese refuse to buy it? Remember how Hummer manufacturing continued & continued to the point dealerships had to hide them in spare back Lots at shopping malls & business centers? .... so that dealerships wouldn't look like there was a massive unsold glut? Which in fact there was?
    auto-storage2.jpg
    Hummer2.jpg
    Hummer1.jpg
    Hummerm6.jpg
    I was told that Toyota dealerships don't want to show their dirty laundry either, & I was given the location to a particular shopping center remote backlot. Lo & behold;
    20180706_133318-1.jpg
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    this is just for Orange County. Not the Bay Area, not San Diego, not Los Angeles. But if directed, you can find out where they are.
    There was literally months of crud and dust on these suckers. At least they kept the Hummers clean. I don't know what to make of it other than facially these things are obviously not moving and yet they are still coming off the boat. And no this was not the shipyard delivery off Long Beach. That's got to be an embarrassment for Toyota.
    .
     
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  6. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    I wonder where the Hummers went.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Recycled into TDI 'clean' diesels?

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there isn't enough cow bleep in the universe to fuel all those cars.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Did you count or have an estimate of how many Mirai?

    One hypothesis is the Honda Clarity fuel cell vehicles have 'crushed' Toyota Mirai sales. There was a significant fall off in Mirai in the most recent dashboard report as the Clarity numbers climbed. But the total fuel cell vehicle sales look flat.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    You have an idea on an address up this way:whistle:?

    I’d go scout it out and provide a count;).

    I’ve only seen a handful in the wild and oddly enough there was one at the local pick n pull:).

    It was a customers car but still looked VERY out of place(y).
     
  11. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    no @orenji chiming in on these range maps?
     
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  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    The title of the thread has Mirai and not Tesla in it;).

    If Tesla appeared, it would be like the red cape for the bull(y).
     
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  13. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    There is nothing really to say. A lot of parked cars? I guess if you have never seen lots of vehicle inventory this would look odd. Nothing new here. There are many lots of new cars that are storage lots for dealers. We already know that they are not flying off the shelves. But in OC County I do see them daily as well as Hondas. So some peps are buying them.
     
  14. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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  15. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    So, that's 3000 total since 10/15 ?
     
  16. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    They released in 2015 but to only a few select dealers. So it was not a full launch.
     
  17. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Let me translate for you El Dobro. That is Orenji for "Yes".
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The fact that a full launch is only for one state, or part of one, gave me a chuckle.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    iirc, in addition to the Mirai - black lot glut, there is also the foreclosure of the extra huge amount of subsidies that Mirai was afforded which offset the expensive $15 per liter for refueling at no cost, & the car's $58K before sales tax cost. The 1st 3 years, drivers got to avoid refueling expenses, but not anymore. And - as of last month (June 30 to be exact) its Cali tax fund/rebated/credit dried up - just as Mirai back lots began. Coincidence?

    2016 Toyota Mirai Long-Term Verdict: Pulling Off the Hydrogen Highway - Motor Trend
    So between all of that & the clarity having better pick up, handling, more seating, more than (only) 4 dealerships qualified to do service (compared to the Clarity) .... and mega expensive / minimal refuelung infrastructure that often requires miles just to get to - iduno. It's not that maybe in 10 years this couldn't work, I suppose, but throwing solar on your residence to recharge an E V for free? As the farmer says, 'that's a tough row to hoe'. EV's too have limits, sure - but if we each find its still gona work - go for it.
    .
     
    #19 hill, Jul 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  20. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    funding "dries up" and gets renewed every year, so that's no big deal.

    i think more telling are the incentives toyota is offering to sell this car. currently that's $349/mo + $15k fuel + $2499 due at signing. financing is at 1.9% APR for 72 months + $15k fuel + $7500 cash. Highlander LE has equivalent lease terms but with no free fuel, and that car retails for $31k.
     
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