Missing a former contributor Mojo

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Apr 15, 2019 at 2:43 AM.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    This is not an epitaph because I suppose Mojo still does his things at facebook or elsewhere. But not here. My loss in particular, because I feel less motivation to read ‘climate’ literature now.

    Mojo was perhaps our last avid reporter of dissimulation about climate change, but more as motivating towards teachable moments. I choose one among his many efforts to highlight:

    GRIP2 temperature history.png


    This is GISP2 ice core from Greenland summit, with temperatures as proxies from oxygen stable-isotope ratios in ice. He posted this in support that earth was warmer in these earlier times than now, and had a scientist as source for that, namely Easterbrook in Washington.

    Problem is that GISP2 core most recent ice is from 1850s, not now.

    ==
    Greenland summit is a horrible place and I have nothing but respect for those who pulled that ice core. Nothing but respect for those others who manage weather station there. From 2008 to now, find data at

    ftp://aftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/data/meteorology/in-situ/sum/

    As I have done, and to save you much effort, average air T there has recently been -28.5 degrees C. Earlier work on Greenland summit T was spotty, so we don’t actually know when it rose above half, most, or all of that GISP2 proxy-T record. All we can say is that “earth was warmer in these earlier times than now” is wrong. Can’t say when it became wrong. Nor can we say how well these single-point data represent whole earth. Berkeley (air) T probably stands as the best measure since 1850 for that.

    ==
    Mojo posted against ‘T is increasing’ and ‘+CO2 increases T’ with equal fervor. Lacking those, I have little hope to get readers to read things. Losing him is not only my loss.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you're just feeling guilty because you drove him out :p
     
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  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    That has occurred to me. He was last in a series of vocal skeptics here.

    My yin seems uninspired in absence of some yang.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, it's not easy to find in these parts. especially someone with so much knowledge, so many links and so much misunderstanding

    maybe try a coal roller chat room
     
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  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I'm not remembering him as a type that would fit in with most fora of that particular type. He was a different mix.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I resent that! I helped!

    If we need a straw man, we could start here:
    Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change

    For example: Biologist Creating Super Plants To Combat Climate Change | Watts Up With That?

    Guest essay by Eric Worrall

    This is the only climate technology which really frightens me.


    This scientist thinks she has the key to curb climate change: super plants

    Adam Popescu in La Jolla, California
    Tue 16 Apr 2019 20.00 AEST

    Dr Joanne Chory hopes that genetic modifications to enhance plants’ natural carbon-fixing traits could play a key role – but knows that time is short, for her and the planet

    An amusing thought . . . CRISPER some photo plankton to give an evolutionary boost.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #7 bwilson4web, Apr 17, 2019 at 1:52 AM
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 1:57 AM
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Share the credit, share the blame.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Guilty, I am.
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
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  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    We will (or will not, there is no try) find other ways to memorialize mojo. Anticipated rapid cooling (any year now...) is another place to look.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Sea levels. Most interesting to me that real +air T pauses, and questionable ones later, are so little expressed in +SLR.

    ==
    Editing phytoplankton genes might not be amusing. Sure, they have similar kludgy photosynthesis (PS) as (pretty much) all others. They are also often constrained by nitrogen limitations. Their neighbor cyanobacteria have same PS but get nitrogen on their own. Those bad boys manage turf wars by emitting toxins. Toxins which make fish and shellfish sometimes not safe to eat.

    Putting better PS genes 'out there' assumes that cyanobacteria could not acquire them. It might be a poor assumption.

    More direct human planetary management involves deciding:
    - How much energy to 'make'
    - How much by CO2 emissions
    - How to use it
    - How much CO2 to take down with land uses that are net carbon accumulators

    My opinion is those are enough decisions for now. Fiddle with marine ecosystems (~20% human food supply) later, if feelings of omniscience swell.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    has anyone pm'ed him/her?
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Cyanbacteria are already a bitch to control in an aquarium.
     
  15. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    One can argue about climate change. I am one of those that believe it is real. The issue for me is what is really causing it? See, for me, I grew up in So Cal in the 60's and was bombarded with information that by 1980, the planet would no longer have an O zone layer to protect us, we were going to die of skin cancer in large proportions and that smog was going to choke us to death. If we all over the entire planet quit using cars, electricity, oil and heating as we do now, would it truly reverse our current situation? Or, is this due to the fact that our solar system is moving into an area in the universe that is affecting our Sun, causing it to have more solar flares than normal?, which causes more heat to hit our atmosphere than in other centuries? Again, I believe it is happening, but, can really really have a positive affect on reversing it? We have better fuel burning cars than in the 60's, we recycle EVERYTHING, we are turning our waste into reusalbe products. What is the solution to global warning? Shutting down the entire use of electricity globally? abolishing the use of cars? Quit breathing? Planting more trees? I'm not poking fun here. We are getting bombarded with how we are tearing apart our planet. So How do we stop it? Seriously? I might add, that back in the 60's, it was common for weekly smog alerts. We shut down all gas emissions. I breathed air that felt like razor blades were shredding my lungs. Schools were closed. Factories were shut down. When was the last time this happened in So cal? We had leaded gas in the 60's, we now have unleaded. We didnt recycle, now we do. We do so much more globaly than we did in the 60's and I am happy we do. So what do we do now?
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    stop using the internets:)
     
  17. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    I will try to address just this part of your post:
    Chlorofluorocarbons effect at reacting with and thinning the UV-protecting upper-level ozone layer was confirmed when hole in ozone layer was measured in Antarctica. Hugher UV dosages produced increased skin cancer rates in at least Australia and probably other Southern Hemisphere countries. The Aussies adopted school uniforms mandating the use of shirts and hats for children, and the “slip, slop, slap” motto for adults going outside that translates as “slip on a shirt, slop on the sunscreen, and slap on a hat”. So effects of ozone thinning were real both on humans and probably species like phytoplankton, where large scale die-offs would have been even more disastrous.
    So what did we do?
    International political cooperation produced a rapid world-wide phase-out in production and use of chlorofluorocarbons in the 1980s-1990s. Most recent ozone layer observations from Antarctica indicate that the ozone depletion hole has stopped increasing and may be finally decreasing in size.
    (Answer to CO2 levels and climate change would be more multi-faceted, but the enacted solutions would also have to at least include the major economies creating high levels of CO2.)
     
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  18. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    I am glad that we are finding solutions. I believe that with every issue that comes, we will find the solution. Sometimes the way things are portrayed, it makes it seem like we have no way out, no solutions, doomsday, etc. I wish I could show you the slide films I had to see as a 8 year old kid! Kind of makes life scary for a kid. I see the point. Just hate the "we humanoids are destroying the planet" doctrine, when we humanoids have found, and will continue to find solutions to our messes.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Unlike the 'flat-earth' and 'anti-vaccination' reports, sea level is a single, empirical metric of the global temperature. There are subtle differences like polar ice that are leading indicators but one has to be careful to separate weather, the locally random, from climate that 'loads the dice.'

    A lot of climate FUD comes from a combination of ignorance and a loud group of deniers. They are so few that like the lamented 'Mojo', we can often track them by name. But that is relatively unimportant unless I need a 'punch line clown' compared to the accumulating climate effects.

    Our species is 'terraforming' our planet much like plants changed the atmosphere. Whether our efforts will be good or bad for our species is something we should address another day in another thread.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The ozone story is a good encouraging one to reflect on, because we did effectively find the solutions in time, and the most adverse outcomes have been averted because we did.

    I wonder, though, if that would still have been guaranteed, if the 40-years-ago approach to finding those solutions had been up against our modern levels of orchestrated denial that there is anything to solve.
     
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