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Model 3 best selling in class in California

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by el Crucero, May 25, 2018.

  1. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    And what is the market share for Jaguar in the US? Tesla may even have them beat in 2018!
     
  2. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Jaguar's share in the US is very small, almost next to nothing. Of course, Jaguar is big in England. Jaguar I-Pace might take a few thousand sales from Tesla in the US but nothing substantial (no Supercharger network in the US at this time). Tesla hasn't started deliveries of the model 3 in Europe and England yet (probably next year) where it is expected to really eat into the European market.
     
  3. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Porsche, BMW, Mercedes will be one's that will keep Elon up at night in the near future. Loyalty to a Brand and History play a key role in ones purchase of a fine luxury automobile.
     
  4. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Yeah, Elon will lose sleep about how those brands might hack into his Supercharger system because they don't have one right now. :sleep:
     
  5. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Well Musk tweets....seem to get him the attention he wants, sounds like some other powerful individual we all know!

    So who wants to help build their own car! Maybe we can go from tents to Amazon in a box, with IKEA instructs to build your own car!

    Never a dull moment at Tesla. :)
     
  6. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Unlike Toyota where all the moments are dull, uninspiring, and un-creative.
     
  7. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Good one! But I have to disagree. Have you seen the Lexus LC500. It's certainly one of the most inspiring and creative designs in automotive history!

    Winning the 24 Hours of Le Mans is never dull!
     
  8. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    You still don't seem to understand.
    Porsche, BMW and Mercedes have already been keeping Musk up at night, because they aren't building EVs!
    Musk's goal has always been to speed the transition to EVs. He knows Tesla can't do it alone, so he is hoping other companies will help.
    He will be resting easier once they finally get on board. Nissan is there, GM is close, and many others are talking big. Once they deliver, he will be much happier.
     
  9. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    If that is truly his goal, why build and sell vehicles that are out of the reach for the average American. Why not sell a $25k car. That would certainly make the change happen sooner?
     
  10. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Well let's take a look at the "most inspiring and creative designs in automotive history." The LC500h has a 0-60, speed of about 4.7 seconds (equal to a model 3LR). It burns an EPA average of 30 mpg of fossil fuel (the model 3 is a BEV). It has cargo capacity of 4.7 cuft.(the model 3 has 15 cuft.). It has a Cd of .33 (the model 3 has .22). It is a 4 passenger car (the model 3 is 5 passenger). It weighs ~4000 lbs (the model 3 ~3800). Expected sales in the US in 2018 ~5000 (expected sales of model 3 in 2018 is ~ 150,000). Price is about $100K (model 3LR is ~49K). Yes, the "most inspiring and creative designs is automotive history" is flying off the shelves and it has the name Tesla on it. :oops:


    How is winning Le Mans in a hybrid going to help the sales of a slower than a slug 2018 Prius/Prime with faltering sales?
    So who wants to help build their own cars? GM Corvette owners do and have been doing so for years. GM charges new owners $5000 to help build their own cars and the program has been successful.

    On one hand, you say that Tesla can't be profitable and on the other you say why can't they build a cheap car. Let me explain it to you:
    • Tesla has to build high margin cars to make a profit before they can build a low margin car
    • Battery technology hasn't advanced to the point where a 300+ range car can be built for $25K. That should happen in the next couple of years.
    • Elon doesn't want to be all cars to all people. He wants Toyota and Honda and Nissan to build a $25K BEV with 300+mile range.
    • With a current backlog of ~400K orders, the last thing Elon wants is $25K BEV with a few million back orders. He wants Toyota, Honda, and Nissan to help out with that part of the market.
    So what else are you confused about? We're here to help.
     
  11. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Thank you for your educational lession on the difference between the LC500 and Model 3. But these cars can't be compared to each other? I never eluded that it was a comparison. I had stated the Lexus LC500 Is Icertainly one of the most inspiring and creative designs in automotive history!

    Have you not ever heard the saying Win on Sunday, sell on Monday? Why do you think auto racing is sponsored by auto companies. It draws people into showrooms. They don't care if you by a IA or a LandCruiser, selling is selling.

    Did VW sell a high margin car to be one of the best selling cars in the world? Even with Dieselgate they are the Biggest car company in the world. One has nothing to do with the other, unless your in need of funds, but Musk has stated he is not looking for any further funding.

    Nissan and Fiat are able to sell a low end priced BEV. Sure it's Milage is not as high, but works for some.

    That's very kind that he wants Toyota and Honda to meet the needs of the lower end segment. But if you want to save the world, then build a car that is affordable and accessible to all.

    Mercedes which is the Silver Star of the high end market sells an affordable car that almost anyone can own, Smart Car.
     
  12. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    When Tesla started producing cars, they were very, very small with a tiny production capacity. They had a difficult time getting suppliers to work with them, much less give them good prices.
    Tesla simply could not build any car at a loss, and frankly, couldn’t build very many anyways.

    To break into the automotive industry is extremely difficult and expensive.
    Tesla not only has all the normal hurdles for a new manufacturer, they also are building out their own service, sales, and fueling infrastructure.

    The only way to do this is to sell a low production, high margin car. Then a lower cost, higher production car as they grow. Then a car priced even less, but much higher production car.

    Tesla doesn’t have the luxury of having other cars pick up the slack for losses of their EV. If they had been a mature car company, they could have afforded to start at the low price end. They aren’t, and yet they have taken far more risks than the legacy car makers that have a safety net.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They would have failed if starting at the low end, and the other companies would take that as proof BEVs have no future.

    And those companies had to spend money on race teams to get the advertising.

    Tesla has a back order of reservation holders for the Model 3 that exceeds the number of Camries sold in the US every year, and they got that without spending money on race teams nor any other traditional advertising.

    VW does have high margin Porsches and Audis to help pad their profits.

    Tesla doesn't have a full line up of traditional car products to subsidize their BEVs.

    If it was that easy, you should do it.

    Which did so well in the US that all but the BEV model was cancelled.