Featured Model 3 has 310 mile range

Considering (per Google) there were over 88,000,000 new cars and light trucks sold in the world last year...BEVs are still a niche market...at present. While some of you are taking my comments off tangent...and maybe a little personal...I give/gave kudos to BEV manufactures and early adapters. This does change the fact that, for now at least, said market is ready or willing to give up the unlimited freedom of time and infrastructure already provided by gas and diesel we have for so long become accustomed to.

Had the Fit EV or RAV4 EV been "allowed" for purchase or lease in Texas I might have tried one (for a while), but they were not. Instead I chose a different path with my "other" or "additional" vehicle because I have the means..as do most of you...but I do not judge because you want different. So let's all just have fun a play with our toys.

The future of personal transportation is still yet to be decided for us. What our Great Grand Parent had and what our Great Grand kids will have will be different either way.

 

i'm sure that many 20k cars are sold, but until henry ford invented the production line, cars were out of reach for many people.
eventually, ev's will come down in cost, and compete with gassers for more market share.

 

Memory. as kids, we were 2nd hand/patched jeans poor - 1 car family / the other walks to the bus station to go to work - where you pay utilities at the brick & morter bldg just to save a stamp. Living on govt' surplus wool (scratchy) navy blankets, & surplus cheese & butter. Wined it forward 4 decades, it feels embarrassing/pretentious to even pull up to the Ritz-Carlton - much less, open falcon wing doors. Yet she-who-must-be-obeyed loves doing that crap.
It reminds me of the movie Driving Miss Daisy, when Morgan Freeman (butler Hoke) pulled up in front of the synagogue with Daisy's new Cadillac. She was mortified, & Hoke didn't get it .... 2 different worlds.
Nice things are nice - but imo, being content w/ less is better. God strike me dead please, if i get to GM board member entitlement, where I show up to Congress to beg for bankruptcy money - yet I arrived in a private jet.
.

 

I wholeheartedly support fully electric vehicles. I think they are superior in so many ways to fossil fuel burners. However, I am not in financial shape to support the early development of EVs. I love what Tesla is doing and I applaud the people who put their money into the EVs. I, unfortunately can not afford to do that.

There are some real technical issues to be solved before EVs become a viable replacement for gas burners (hybrids included). The biggest issue, of course is "re-fueling". No matter how you slice it, it takes way longer to fill up an EV than it takes to fill up even a very large gas tank. Not only that, but the ubiquity of charging opportunities is not nearly close to gas filling opportunities. I realize this is all in flux and changing every day in EV's favor. I am fanning for that. But I can not at this time participate in this early stage of EV development, much as I want to. I imagine it's the case with most car consumers. This is a very early part of this and we need some sort of a breakthrough. Either a charging/storage breakthrough or a gas crisis or something like that to propel EVs forward to mainstream.

As for now I am very happy with my Prius' transitional solution of doubling the average gas mileage for roughly the same purchase price of vehicle. This makes solid sense as a stepping stone. I think Toyota is in much better shape than Tesla and would be very surprised if they weren't working on an EV. Toyota has experience producing cars of outstanding quality and reliability and they have a lot of experience with electric drives. They also have the financial health of a thriving auto maker to do the development of an EV that leapfrogs Tesla. I wonder if they are doing this...

Anyway, I love Tesla and I wish them all the luck in the world in bringing EVs to mainstream, but I think they are a ways off still.

 

While I could not find median prices either, Kelly Blue Book breaks down their average (mean) price by brand and segment, which could give a clearer picture: New-Car Transaction Prices Rise Nearly 2 Percent Year-Over-Year in July 2017, According To Kelley Blue Book - Aug 1, 2017

 

it's published right here;
Average new car price zips 2.6% to $33,560
So you were right. It's not $33k. It's actually closer to $34k.
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No, Hill.

Know thy difference between mean and median. You posted the mean again. Also, the $33k was mentioned by the two prior posters (Zythryn introduced that number). Some sites have updated the mean to $34k with the most recent sales data.

Here are some segment totals which may additionally help:

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

 

I agree with you that refueling/charging is the biggest current impediment to widespread electric vehicle adoption. It used to be range, then affordable range, but I think the Chevy Bolt, Tesla Model 3, and the slew of other 200+ mile electric cars planned for the next 3-4 years make both pure range and cost a non-issue for new car buyers.

You touched on the most important aspect to charging: time. Charging opportunities for electric vehicles are ubiquitous if time isn't a factor, as EVs can charge from any electric outlet. So the current issue (no pun intended) is the relative lack of fast charging locations in comparison to gas stations. Even if the majority of people who own their own houses charge in their garages or driveways, that still leaves all the people who rent who still need access to fast charging if/when EVs become mainstream (i.e. common enough to cease being a novelty in most people's eyes).

Tesla has an advantage over traditional carmakers like Toyota because they started at the right time to catch the EV transition just when it was becoming possible, and Musk et. al. also had the foresight to imagine the scale at which it could happen. Toyota makes great cars, but regarding the EV transition, they're late to the game. So in order to grab significant market share once the widespread transition to electric vehicles happens (which seems likely to happen within the next 10 years), Toyota will have to play catch-up by designing better and more reliable electric cars than everyone else.

 

i'm trying to picture a world where ev's are so profitable and selling so well, that anyone but tesla really feels the need to jump in with both feet.

sorry, i can't do it.

 

Indeed, with the spiel seeming to infer the majority of buyers would want to go this route.

No negativity here, I love Musk and Tesla. But the every man Tesla will have to be a base model for this guy...

 

Yes, time and access to an outlet. If you consider a regular old 120V/20A house circuit a charging opportunity, then sure, they are ubiquitous, but that's 2.4 kW of energy, which will take what, 25 hours to charge a 60 kW battery (assuming the charger can take 2.4 kW per hour, which it should). That's pretty crazy. I understand that you can probably top off opportunistically here and there, but what a hassle to look for a plug every time you park. I am sure it will change and become much more acceptable and common in the future, but at this time it may be very inconvenient. Also, what infrastructure does one need at home to effectively charge an EV with something like a 60 kW battery. I am sure something a bit more robust than your basic 20A circuit in the garage. So more expense there to install something more suitable. And yes, people who do not own their own home are SOL.

As I said, these very basic features of owning a car need to be addressed for EVs to go mainstream. Or gasoline to become like $10/gallon overnight.

 

is the 35k before tax credits?

 

Yes.

Excellent point, thank you for noting that.

Thanks for the link!!

Ditto, thanks again for the link, I will read up on this one as well as MRA's

This is a misnomer. Yes, it can take a long time to change on a 120V plug. But how far does each person drive? For those that have a 120V plug in their garage and drive less than 30-40 miles a day, it is incredibly convenient. It also takes almost none of my time at all.
Of course, if there is a 240V 20A/30A/40A plug for a freezer, laundry, power tools, RV, etc charging can happen in a much shorter period of time.

What isn't 'acceptable and common' isn't necessarily 'inconvenient'.
The perception of charging an EV also needs to change. Even if it were more convenient for everyone (and it definitely isn't), that perception needs to change.

 

Yes. The Model 3 currently ranges from $35,000-$59,500 plus tax, title, license, delivery, etc. And that's without tax credits.

 

Do you drive 250 miles every day? That is what 60kWh is equivalent to. Do you buy 8 gallons of gasoline everyday?

My driving average is more like 30 miles/day. 30 miles per day would only require about 8 kWh with either the Bolt or Model 3. To replenish the battery this could be done even on 120V at ~1kW in 6-8 hours of home charging time. Even if you occasionally drive 100 or 150 miles in a day you would still be OK with the Bolt or Model 3 although it might take a couple of nights to fully charge the battery - i tis not a requirement to fill the battery every time you recharge, in fact for battery longevity it is preferable if you don't. Agreed it is desirable to be able to charge faster but I don't see it as being essential.

When I had a SparkEV I had no problem with charging at home on 120V, even though I had purchased a Level 2 charger I never installed it. I have put my name down for a Model 3 and probably won't rush to install a level 2 charger when I eventually get the car.

kevin

ps - be careful about your units - '2.4kW per hour' is not a meaningful measurement 2.4kWh/h reduces to just 2.4kW. Most level 2 EVSE and on-board chargers support 6.6kW now.

 

until the credits go away, it seems the net (at least federal) is a more appropriate number for discussion.

 

US median commute distance is just a hair over 20 miles round trip. All the latest generation plugins from Prime to Model SX3 have the electric range to do this and overnight 120 V charging times to therefore work for >50% of commuters.

 

true, but that's not selling many ev's. people have to have reasons to want them.

 

the difference is simple - the 'mean' is average. You add the cost of all manufacturers' MSRP's. Divided by the # of manufacturers' MSRP's (whether the US has 10 or 100) by the MSRP totals that got added together. Bam. $34k.
Median is irrelevant.
For example, you wana say median is 'only $25k' ?
Thus, 'median' might mean that 10 of 21 manufacturers' cars MSRP all cost $100k, while 10 other manufacturers MSRP's all cost $24k. If manufacturer #21's MSRP is $25k, then he's the median, but big deal, because he may only sell a thousand cars that most buyers don't even want. So it can be way less relevant that the 'median' $25k price # is the middle manufacturers' MSRP, in-between the higher & lower 20 manufacturers' MSRP's.
MEAN is simply average.
Median is just a # that falls in between the other numbers.
Why would anyone other than a factoid spouting actuary care to know what that # is, if it doesn't necessarily have to include more data.
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