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Moon

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Here, say anything you want about moon. It has gravity effects on earth's environment. Other linkages remain to be developed.

    So far about 400 kilograms of moon stuff has been returned to earth. About 187,400 kilograms of earth stuff has been deposited there. The very first deposit (Luna-2 in 1959) equaled all moon rocks and regolith that have been brought back since. Fun facts.

    Returned regolith has apparently been stored poorly (Houston, looking at you); oxidized and hydrolyzed. If we want to know how to interact with those small particles (with large surface areas), gotta go get some more.

    Getting humans off Earth (most prominently to Mars) would seem to involve 'practicing' on Moon first. It is 800 times closer (that number varies but never gets small).

    Moon itself has some interesting isotopes and presents unique opportunities for radio astronomy. Goes in and out of earth's magnetotail monthly. Sounds sciency to me, and this is not a complete list. It used to be the flag-planting place. It could become a thing-doing place.

    Or, skip it and put a flag on Mars. Better?
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The moon scares me a bit: it's a significant object, lurking nearby. Just hope it stays put, lol.

    I heard a while back that's it's far side, the side we never see, is more crater-pocked, since we (the earth) tend to "run interference" for it, catching some of the debris that otherwise crash into it, on the near side.

    My youngest grand kid, when he was very young, whenever I was carrying him under moonlit night, say from the car to the house, would look up and point at the moon. :)
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Just thinking about it without looking up details, Moon's proximity to Earth should enhance impact rates on the far side, shield it some on the near side, but I'm not imaging that the difference should be all that much. It should be a small statistical thing, not enough to influence occupant protection requirements.

    As for visible cratering, don't neglect the Moon's own geological factors. Its tidal lock to the Earth may have produced asymmetric rates of lava flows that erase ancient crater evidence. At least back when the Moon still had enough internal heat to drive surface volcanic activity.
     
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  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    There are 4 larger moons in solar system. Jupiter has 3 and Saturn 1. But bigness of moon compared to its host is unique around here.

    Very little doubt that it bears witness to remarkably bad driving in early solar system times.

    Moon also stabilises Earth rotational axis at 23 degrees +/- not much. This is said to be a good thing for biology. Mars and Venus may have 'tumbled' from time to time. Don't know where best evidence for that has been presented.
     
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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Protecting Earth from impacts is a particularly good thing if large enough for planetary disruption. Or if you happen to live where a crater did thus not form.

    But according to comet research, Earth's surface water arrived from them about 500 million years after local clocks started. Good impacts, those.
     
  6. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Scratchy on moon.jpg
     
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  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    The earth-moon barycenter (system center of mass) is much closer to earth's surface than center, but it is still inside. If it where outside earth's surface, some astronomers what define us as a double planet system, not a planet-plus-moon system.

    But this relative bigness isn't actually unique in our solar system. Charon is even larger compared to its host Pluto, enough so to put their barycenter well outside Pluto's surface. But can we call them a double planet when Pluto is no longer labeled a major planet, now just a minor planet? :)
     
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  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Oh poor Pluto. Now chief of minor planet legion. They number more than 700,000.
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    While the best known, is it the largest? When demoted, it appeared to be a bit smaller than several others in its new league, though I haven't kept up with more recent measurements.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  12. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Charles Hall and The Tall White ETs

    Charles Hall's tale about living with the Tall Whites at Area 54 near Las Vegas includes a section discussing the arrival/departure times for their interstellar craft. The position of the moon was important, in fact critical, to the process of gravitational pool required to approach the earth.

    About half way down the webpage under "Facilities and Activities"

    Arriving deep space craft were observed to first hover or land at Dog Bone Lake near the upper end of Three Lakes Valley, then to proceed northwest to the hangar entrance, which is built into a mountainside.

    Arrivals always occurred at sundown, full moon.

    ...

    Hall believes that this configuration, with the sun on one side of the earth and the moon on the other, and the earth moving away from the approaching craft, provided the “smoothest” gravitational field through which the craft needed to maneuver.

    This might have been an oversimplified explanation, yet clearly, with the crafts' propulsion units' tendency to overheat, the Tall Whites were not free to choose any arbitrary entry into the earth-moon system. They needed a path that minimized the required use of the propulsion system. It is also possible that the craft were hand-navigated on the approaches and that this factor played a role.

    Deep space craft departures took place at midnight at the time of the new moon.​
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    RobH is more convinced than I about local presence of ETs. That does not really matter. We can both agree that far side of Moon would have strategic value for visitors whether their intentions are kindly or not.

    In addition it is an excellent setting for many types of astronomy. Mars, yeah, I get it, but the Moon is functional.
     
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  14. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    Charles Hall wrote the first 2 books of his 5 book series as fiction. Feel free to approach his stories as such.

    The gravitational effects of the moon are not only considered with regard to our plans for travel to Mars and beyond, they are critical. The slingshot effect provides acceleration that doesn't have to come from fuel carried on board.
     
  15. litesong

    litesong Active Member

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    Ring-a-ding-a-dlng: Tomorrow morning in the SE morning dark sky, the crescent moon will drift below, Jupiter & Mars, the three, looking like an odd smiley-face. A little later, Saturn will rise above the horizon, to the lower left of the Moon, Jupiter & Mars. In the dark early morning of Saturday, March 21, 2020, the waning crescent Moon will pass below dim Mercury. Watch with binoculars, to see Mercury about 6 Moon diameters away from the Moon. If you've never seen Mercury, this is a fairly easy way to see Mercury.

    This morning with my shaky, hand-held 30 power spotting scope, I saw Jupiter, & two of its moons. I got curious & set up my mirror spotting scope (w/small tripod) with a 53 power eyepiece. I could see all 4 of Jupiter's brightest moons. What made it really interesting, 2 of the moons were very close (~ one quarter the width of Jupiter). As I viewed, they got even closer.
     
    #15 litesong, Mar 17, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  16. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It's a pearl of wisdom, a slice of green cheese
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it was big in the seventies
     
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  19. litesong

    litesong Active Member

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    I woke up this morning, completely unplanned, & went to the south facing computer window. Visually in the southeast, just above the mountain horizon about 10 miles away, I saw Jupiter, looking red, due to the atmospherics & mountain fog, low on the mountain. To the right of Jupiter, with the 8 power Nikon Buckmaster binoculars, I saw dimmer Mars, strongly red with the atmospherics adding to the Martian red. About 5-10 minutes later, our waning crescent Moon began lifting above the mountain horizon, like a knife point. Looking with the shaky 20 power Pentax binoculars, I could see Mares of the Moon, & some cratering. Copernicus crater was excellent on the mid-line terminator, identified using the Bausch & Lomb mirror spotting scope. As the Moon lifted further on the horizon, I saw distance dark mountain Earth trees silhouetted against the Mares & mountains of the Moon. Lifting completely above the horizon, Jupiter, Mars & crescent Moon, DID look like a Smiley face with a twisted grin. :sneaky: In truth, reversed from the icon. The dark of the Moon was illuminated quite well from Earth shine. If this grouping had been in the south(WEST), I think the Earthshine would have been stronger, due to sunlight reflecting off the Pacific Ocean into the shadow of the Moon. Later, Saturn appeared above the horizon, well to the east of the Smiley Face. Later still, I tried to see Mercury but to no avail. Maybe on the 21st, when the Moon is closer to the planet (& if the clear skies continue), I'll see Mercury.
     
    #19 litesong, Mar 18, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I heard there is mandate everyone has to drive an EV on the Moon.