Featured More Fleets Choose XL Hybrids' Plug-In Hybrid F-150

Nice: Technology | XLHybrids


Apparently works for GM too if the legend on the image is accurate.

Bob Wilson

 

I think this may be the likeliest path to PHEV (and eventually full BEV) acceptance among truck, van, and SUV owners. If fleet buyers can find economic benefit then you will see more and more out on the roads. Mindset will slowly change, especially (and fastest) among those contractors that are actually using the vehicles.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ford is the first company to have a truly OEM PHEV fullsize mainstream truck (thinking F-150, Silverado, Ram, Titan, Tundra).

 

pretty cool, any idea on cost and possible tax credits?

 

VIA Motors | Extended Range Electric Powertrain Trucks/Vans has the GM licensing I guess. Really no technical reason either system couldn't work on any full frame vehicle with the space for the batteries.

Via is a pure serial hybrid with a 20kWh pack. It might take a $40k truck up to $80k. They also look like they sell you a converted truck where as XLhybrid sells you a bolt in conversion kit.

Technical details are light on the XLHbrid. The pack is 10kWh, but I can't tell if its a serial hybrid, or a parallel one in which the motor completely replaces the transmission. Taking out the transmission would be the easiest way of dealing with it for a bolt on hybrid system.

 

40k for a 50% fe improvement doesn't really pencil out.

 

XL's system has always been a parallel, post-transmission system. This is also why the stock powertrain can remain untouched - XL basically just intercepts the throttle signal and gear selector position, as I understand, to know what to do. (I'm guessing that this pickup PHEV system does more interception, but it might not have to actually modify the stock ECU - note that it requires the stop-start system to be present to work properly. So, it might just be relying on that system, and preventing the stock ECU from seeing the power request until it's high enough to require the engine to start.)

Basically, you remove the driveshaft between the transmission and the rear axle, and then you put their motor and a shorter driveshaft in.

And, they do offer their kit for basically any front-engine RWD body-on-frame design, as well as some unibody designs like the Transit.

(I had something about how it'd only work on the rear wheels, but I was wrong.) On 4WD pickups, because of how a transfer case works in them, it'll actually work on the front wheels (through the transfer case), too - the transfer case locks the front and rear together to the transmission output, so anything that turns the rear driveshaft (like the XL Hybrids motor) will also turn the front driveshaft.

 

I mistook the transmission in the picture for the engine. Any description on operation, or more in depth specs?

It is probably a question of space between the transmission and the transfer case on whether it will work with 4WD. Which likely isn't an issue for the vehicles they are targeting. Tacoma's are likely out of luck though.

 

They're not going between the transmission and transfer case. They're going between transfer case and rear axle, but because of how part-time 4WD systems work (in general), if you're in 4WD, and you're driving the rear wheels, you're also driving the front wheels - the transfer case merely locks the front and rear axles together (which is why engaging 4WD should never be done unless you're on a loose/slippery surface).

Here's a video showing their system (an earlier non-plug-in version) on a Transit (where they mount their electric motor further back):

IMO, it's not the optimum solution, but it's a hell of an effective solution for a retrofit.

 

Well, note that they're using the auto stop-start variants of the F-150. Here's a guide on how that auto stop-start system works: https://www.f150forum.com/attachments/f118/448310d1473761210-2015-2-7-ecoboost-start-stop-feature-not-working-g0000050-effective-dec-7-2015-2015-2016-f150-auto-start-stop-operation-general-service-bulle.pdf

Looks like there's a vacuum brake booster, and the engine can be started by vacuum going away. But, there'll be residual vacuum... Alternately, they could add an electric vacuum pump.

 

via versus XL versus oem.

IMHO to do this right it needs to be OEM. While technically the via solution seems "better", IMHO its a non-starter. What happens if it breaks? How much is the down time. The XL system seems much easier. If it breaks, and you want to get rid of it, replace the drive shaft, get rid of the motor, flash the computer, done. You don't even need to remove the battery, though you probably would to lose weight, but that can be a year later. Still an OEM type could design that battery in, and probably choose the right turbo engine/motor combo to optimize performance/fuel economy mix.

With california pollution regulations, PHEV truck makes a lot of sense for at least sales in that state. Still I found an interview from XL from 2013, and back then they thought high gas prices to really take off.

 

so - if/when Ford actually goes into business putting hybrid systems in their pickups, how long does the aftermarket (haven't delivered any product yet, just understanding & agreements in principal) conversion company stay in business .....
From history, we can consider the brave, entrepreneurial risk taking folks that were installing larger traction packs in existing hybrids & companies that hybridized other vehicles. pretty much gone the way of the dodo bird. IIRC, wasn't Bob Klutz trying to get one of these companies off the ground for several years utilizing GM trucks?
Ok, so maybe he's just a bad example of a walking kiss of death for a company, but I'm just sayin' this will (as Farmers used to say) be a tough row to hoe.
.

 

XL has delivered quite a few conversions, it's just that the PHEV is new. And, VIA has also delivered trucks to fleets. Neither company is selling to consumers, so that's why it looks like they haven't gotten off the ground - they have, they're just not selling to you.

In any case, if a major manufacturer launches a PHEV pickup, VIA is screwed. XL, on the other hand, markets their conversions into many different markets, and I think they can survive - for instance, even if Ford does a F-150 hybrid or PHEV, that still leaves the van market (which, with delivery vans, as well as van-based minibuses, is a huge market for hybridization), and that still leaves the heavy duty market.

I do think XL will get pushed out of existence eventually, but they can survive for quite a while, being pushed out of the lighter duty vehicles.

 

No word from Toyota on a Tundra hybrid yet.

 

Here's a prediction, by the way, about what mileage a Tundra Hybrid would get, based on what I think will provide a hybrid system to it.

I can't get an exact match here, but I'll try to get close.

My prediction is that a Tundra with updated conventional powertrains like the one in the LC 500 will get something on the order of 14-15 city, and 19-20 highway for RWD.

Extrapolating from the LC 500 and LC 500h comparison, that would mean a city mileage of about 21-24, and a highway mileage of about 23-25, assuming a V6 with the Multi-Stage Hybrid system. Upshot is, it'd be competitive with the turbocharged V6s on EPA highway, and it'd blow everyone away in the city.

 

But until Toyota makes it, Tundra drivers will have to go to XL for a hybrid version.