More snow tire/TPMS questions

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by brugan, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. brugan

    brugan New Member

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    Hi everyone. I picked up my Prime just over two weeks ago, and have been loving it so far!

    This week I'm going to start calling around for prices on snow tires and I have some questions for y'all.

    This is my first car with TPMS. I believe I've gleaned from other posts here that I can put sensor-less rims on with no ill effects. That is my plan, because I don't want to pay extra every time I swap the tires. The dealer currently has a tire sale going on, but I assume they won't want to do this. Does that sound right?

    My previous car was a 2007 Honda Fit. The snows for that are 195/55R15s. The Prime's are 195/65R15s, so if I'm understanding tire sizes correctly, new snow tires for the Prime should fit on the old rims. So I think the only question is the lug pattern/size. How do I figure out if they match, short of dragging the Fit's snow tires into the shop and seeing how it goes?

    (Oh, if it wasn't already obvious, I'm not doing this myself. I'm planning on getting some prices from a few shops and having them do it.)

    Thanks!
     
  2. PT Guy

    PT Guy Active Member

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    It is against federal law for any shop to disable any car's safety feature. That makes it illegal for a tire shop to take off wheels with sensors an put on wheels without sensors. You can do it yourself if you want. The sensors do not need any attention when switching wheels. There are sensors on the market that clone the original sensors. That's what Discount Tire sold me. I switch wheels or rotate tires without any fuss.

    Here you can find all the specs about the wheel sizes. Wheel-Size.com :: Reference guide for car wheel and tire dimensions such as size, offset, PCD

    You need not only the same bolt pattern (number of bolts, diameter of bolt circle, diameter of bolt holes) but also match the center bore diameter. If the new wheels have a larger center bore, OK, you can put on an adapter ring. If the new wheels have a smaller center bore, you're out of luck. You need to match the offset. Positive offset is how far the wheel center mounting face is outboard of the centerline of the rim. Try for no more than a 5 mm difference. You need to be sure the new wheels clear the brake calipers. If the new wheels have a different lug nut contact face shape,you need to buy lug nuts that fit. The stock Honda wheels I've had used a spherical lug nut face. Toyota alloy wheels use a flat face. Most aftermarket wheels use a conical face. No problem if you buy the correct nuts.
     
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  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    OP is in Canada. The law may be different from US. Why don't you just ask the dealer or shop to see if they would install TPMS-less rims with snows on your car? They may agree to do it. If they refuse to do it, then you should buy rims and tires and ask them to mount and balance without TPMS. You will have to install the tires on to your car yourself.

    I just purchased the Autel TS508 TPMS diagnostic, service tool that will program (clone) Autel MX-sensors, and do the re-learn procedure for any TPMS equipped cars. It may be too costly if you only have one car, and that one car is PRIME which shows no tire pressure information on the dash display. But if you have multiple cars you need to swap tires, or you have a car with tire pressure information displayed and really want to keep that function when you swap tires, the tool may be a very handy and cost-effective way to DIY tire swap and TPMS cloning or re-learning yourself.

    And AFAIK, Fit (4x100) and PRIME (5x100) have a different bolt pattern, so the rims from Fit will not work on PRIME.

    Screenshot 2019-10-14 at 12.29.54 AM.png
     
    #3 Salamander_King, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  4. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    Welcome to PriusChat !

    **************************

    First, read post #1 of my Stickied thread TWICE, it will give you good data.
    Aftermarket Wheel Fitment Guidelines | PriusChat

    Then read through my snow tire thread, "GET YOUR DEDICATED SNOW TIRES NOW !!!", it too will give you valuable info.
    GET YOUR DEDICATED SNOW TIRES NOW !!! | PriusChat

    Many of us including me do not use TPMS sensors on our snow tires (wheels). The way I personally look at this is my dedicated snow tires will only be mounted for 10 to 12 weeks, the odds are in my favor...

    As to your Honda Fit wheels working: They Won't because they use a 4x100 bolt circle, your Prime uses a 5x100 bolt circle. Sell them on craigslist for ~.70 cents on the dollar, someone will buy them.

    EDIT: LOL, I type slow...

    Rob43

    PS, If you have a conveniently located 240 volt outlet, you can charge your new Prime up in 2 1/2 hours for less than $50 dollars !
     
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  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That is only for required safety features. TPMS is required only in the U.S., not in OP's Canada.

    Other Canadians here have had no difficulty in declining TPMS at their local tire shops. It seems that the shops must offer TPMS, but customers are allowed to decline.

    Are you offering in $US or $CDN? ;)
     
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  6. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    Gummy Bears.... :cool:



    Rob43
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That's correct. We've 8~9 winters now, with our tpms-less snow tires. A little warning light comes on. Come spring when the regular all-seasons go back on, the light goes away.

    Ask them. Late in 2010 I got a snow tire on rim package through a local dealership. The guy asked me if I wanted TPMS sensor, while emphatically shaking his head "no", lol. In Canada there's no regulation forcing you to use sensors, as far as I know.

    Here's the rims and lug nuts I used, back in 2010 the rims were $70 (CDN) apiece, and the set of lug nuts was $31. I went with Michelin X-Ice: very good road feel on bare road, which is our situation 95% of the time. I put 2" ABS pipe end caps over the centre hub, to prevent rust.

    Corolla steel rim, part no: 42611-02471 (2003-2008 corolla or matrix, CE, LS, S)
    steel rim lug nuts, part no: 90942-01007 (plain, open-ended, galvanized)

    Consider Costco too. You can show up with loose rims, they'll do the install. Still, if the dealership price is close, I'd be inclined to stick with them, one stop shopping.

    IMG_1280.JPG
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  8. brugan

    brugan New Member

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    Thanks, everyone, for the warm welcome and the excellent info! I am now much more well versed in rim specifications and comparative automotive safety law. Learning is fun! :)

    Thanks for the threads! I hadn't seen the first one, because I was only looking at the Prime forum. I mostly skimmed the second, as a lot of it seemed to be about prices from various online shops and we're a bit e-commerce challenged up here.

    Does Costco not sell compatible rims? Or are the Corolla rims better than what I could get there?

    We had the X-Ice on the Fit, and were happy with them, so we'll probably go with those or something similar.

    I definitely feel much more prepared to start talking to shops, so thanks again, everyone!
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Maybe I'm OCD, but I prefer the Corolla rims over "compatible" because they have the correct fit hub opening. Generic rims have large one-size-fits-all hub openings. You might be able to get adapter rings, but mostly I see them just left open. This means they're relying on just the lug nuts to keep the rim centred.

    Too: the exposed hubs rust like crazy. The Corolla rim I found a 2" ABS end cap makes a semi-presentable "hub cap". It has slight play; what I do is push a short section cut off a bicycle inner tube (basically a rubber band) over the lip of the hub opening, then push on the end cap. They stay on ok. A thick rubber band, like you get on broccoli bunches, might work as well.

    Doesn't hurt to check with dealerships. Again, in 2010, mine were $70 apiece. Seems like prices have climbed though, online at least. But who knows: give a dealership a call, ask about all-in price, snow tire package with Corolla rims, if they can get them. That might be what they're offering.
     
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  10. brugan

    brugan New Member

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    The dealer I bought the car from claims they'll match advertised or online prices. Costco has the X-Ice Xi3s for $123.99 each, including the disposal fee. That seems like a good price.
     
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  11. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    I bought steel rims from Tire Rack, and they have the correct hub bore (but maybe a little more tolerance in it than a factory alloy wheel. I haven't used Toyota steel wheels for comparison). Sticking with Toyota wheels would be better if you can get them for a reasonable price, but almost nothing I've seen at my dealership is reasonably priced.

    The advantage of Tire Rack is they will mount and balance tires on the wheels for you without any hassle about TPMS. And their warehouse is nearby in Denver, so I can pick them up and get a small discount (to offset the "free" shipping).
     
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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    OP is in Canada, and TireRack shipping costs are punishing, at least last time I checked.

    I'm simply suggesting to OP that he phone the dealership, get a price. I've found once in a while, pleasant surprises can occur, if you approach things with an open mind. It doesn't hurt to ask.

    Again, OP is in Canada, and it's not mandatory to have tpms. I had no problems or hassles getting a snow tire package through a dealership, the price was "reasonable", well by Canadian standards, and they actually discouraged me from getting tpms. Though they were preaching to the choir, lol.

    The kicker: it is a turn-key transaction: you drive in, the wheels are swapped, and the fit is verified.
     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  13. PT Guy

    PT Guy Active Member

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    Aftermarket wheels with conical lug nut seats are lug-centric, not hub-centric, i.e., centered by the lug studs. Toyota stock alloy wheels with the flat lug seats are hub-centric. (When a wheel is off it's a good idea to clean the hub extension where the wheel sits with a wire brush and put on a thin smear of an anti-seize paste.)
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah I like to put a dab or two of anti-seize, then take an old toothbrush, spread it around the entire face uniformly.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Thor gave me a hammer.
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    When stuck, that's my trick as well. Got the tip from Eric the Car Guy: have the tire just clear of the concrete, set a timber block direct behind the inside face of the tire, have one lug nut installed loose at 12 o'clock, and wack the block with a sledge hammer.
     
  17. brugan

    brugan New Member

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    Yep. The cheapest rims at Costco are $69.99. The Corolla rims from the dealer are $79. The dealer had the tires (X-Ice) for ~$130 each, but they're matching the Costco price of $119.99. So yes, for ~$40 more, the one-stop shop is worth it to me. And they'll wash the car, to boot.

    Mendel, I'm not sure I'm following about the end cap. Once I do the swap and can see the rim, I may have further questions on that.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Good to hear. There might be a mail-in rebate on the Michelin's too?

    The bare rim, with raised lip. It's SLIGHLY loose fit if you drop a 2" ABS end cap (readily available at Home Depot, Rona, etc) onto it:

    IMG_1301.JPG

    A "rubber band", just cut from old bicycle inner tube:

    IMG_1302.JPG

    Stretched and pushed over the hub opening flange:

    IMG_1304.JPG

    Then push on the 2" ABS end cap. Try to screw it on, without displacing the rubber band, then gently tap it home. I find on the front rims of our 3rd gen, it can't quite bottom out, touches the drive shaft first. But it's close:

    IMG_1305.JPG

    An overall view with lug nuts, just to give some idea. If you've got those open-ended lug nuts, a drop of oil on the end, brushed around, keeps the wheel lugs from rusting up:

    IMG_1306.JPG
     
    #18 Mendel Leisk, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  19. brugan

    brugan New Member

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    Thanks, Mendel!

    Also, I've read the other threads on the best snows, but we've felt secure on the XIce tires that we've had in the past.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    One fall I put on the X-Ice (in place of 17" Michelin Pilot OEM's), and my wife was the first to drive the car. When she got back I asked her how they felt, and she said hadn't noticed the swap. :)
     
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