More torque please

to save money?

 

Knowing that Prius Prime is targeted squarely at middle-market, it didn't make sense giving it higher than necessary performance. Balance is essential for a high-volume competitive offering.

You want that, you wait for a more powerful offering later.

Remember, Toyota's goal is to phase out traditional vehicles. You don't do that by putting all your eggs in one basket.

 

Your opinion.
I do not necessarily agree.

None of the Prius line was built with speed racing as a top priority.......and they still sell good.

As for why they ARE the way they are, typically you get to choose between speed and efficiency.
Toyota chose efficiency.

 

You want a heavier, less efficient car to 'solve' a problem it does not have?

 

It is simply a matter of cost. The Prius motor is already powerful enough for EV only operation. Toyota saves a lot of money by using the same unit in the Prime, which shows up in its very affordable price. They did add a clutch to the Prime's transaxle that allows the M/G1's output to be added to propulsion. That is basically adding about 20kW to the M/G2's 53kW. If that somehow isn't enough for a non-sports car, it can fall back to the ICE.

 

This is where my carbon fiber argument comes in. Substantially reduce the weight with much more carbon fiber, and all aspects of the car benefit, from brakes to cooling, with improvements in fuel economy and of course acceleration. The big problem to solve is cost!! I'm afraid the metal lobbies might try very hard to kill the nascent carbon fiber industry. These are certainly exciting times!!

.

 

BMW is working on the carbon fiber cost. The future issue is going to be how to recycle it.

 

We're probably a huge distance away from that today, but you bring up a very good point, especially for the grandkids!!

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I just want it to produce the power it already has - the 76kW of the two motor ratings and what the chief engineer said it produces - instead of the ~60kW it produces now.

 

Yet another theoretical discussion questioning the engineering decisions made in the design of a car.
Seems that EVERYBODY who has a drivers license thinks he is a mechanical/electrical engineer too.
It does get rather old.
There probably are factors that you aren't aware of.......like a reliability margin or heat dissipation considerations.......OR that the battery isn't big enough to support max. power it's capable of......or a combination of that and other things we haven't thought of too.

 

I'm a power electrical engineer specializing in power electronics and three-phase permanent magnet electric machines.

The chief engineer of this car said in a conference that the car would put out 76kW in Ev mode. I measured it around 60kW average, with a peak of 63kW.

 

Maybe it does in Japan or Europe.

 

In previous versions of Prius, PIP (and all other Toyota hybrid transmissions) MG1 does not contribute to EV mode power driving the wheels, it is only used to balance the torque of the ICE to provide the eCVT operation. In EV mode MG1 rotates such that the ICE remains stationery but it does not deliver any power. MG2 provides all the propulsion.

The Prius Prime is the first implementation with a one-way clutch on the ICE so that during EV mode BOTH motors can drive the front wheels. The combined motor power is increased by about 40-50% over just the one motor.

kevin

 

I think the Prius line appeals to those conscious of the environment and fuel costs.
They probably dont fit the profile of someone looking for an electric performance car.

For me if the spent research and development costs on how to make it go 0 to 60 faster, and made design tradeoffs to do it, i'd give that negative points.

It needs to accelerate fast enough so as not to be a hazard in traffic, and not much more.

 

So ???
What's your point.
You want them to stop lying......
OR you want them to make it actually DO what they say .......

Maybe he said that the components were capable of that......and did not bother to say "but the actual torque available has been limited because of (whatever)."

Any chance that your measurements are off a bit ?? No, of course not possible.

 

What road speeds did you use in your measurements?

According to the SAE paper 2017-01-1151 the sum of MG1 and MG2 powers is indeed 76kW (23+53) however that power will probably be reached only above a certain speed and it is not certain that the two motors can both reach the max power simultaneously. In that paper there is no detailed information about the power vs road speed or motor speed.

kevin

 

I’m fine with the amount of power the prime produces but I am disappointed that the torque curve and acceleration times are so vastly different between EV and HV. I do think it’s somewhat of a hazard to merge this car onto a freeway in ev mode.