Mosque at Ground Zero?

I'd think anyone going to a place of worship would not want distractions and focus on the services - I would.

If I were choosing a sanctuary, the last place I'd choose is where the members would be thinking of something else, but then life is too often irrational.

 

It's a really simple issue. It's their property, so they can do whatever they want within the applicable land use regulations.

It is sadly amusing that the crowd who is most vocal against this project is the same crowd that runs around crying about how great America is because of freedom.

 

If it were taken off money, I would be be very happy. If we returned the Pledge of Allegiance to its original state and took out the "under God", I would be even happier.

 

I think you're the one that could do a little more research before spouting off as well as considering the source of your research.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran]Christianity in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The cost of religious conversion in Iran | Theresa Malinowska | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

There's no end of woe in a country that combines Religion and Political/Civic Power, to many it's insensitive but build the Muslim Culture Center we don't want government telling us how, when and where to worship.

 

No, as Trebuchet states you are the one that needs to do research. My information comes from church missionaries that have spent years in Muslim-ruled countries.

 

I'm sure Christian church missionaries are about as welcomed as muslim missionaries would be here, being a Christian missionary does not give you good insight into what its like there.


On Faith Panelists Blog: The great "Ground Zero mosque" hoax - James Standish
The great "Ground Zero mosque" hoax

Anyone paying attention the last couple of weeks has heard multiple reports about plans to build a mosque at Ground Zero. It's been labeled a "victory mosque", described as towering over the memorial to the victims of 9/11, and as being the pet project of a terrorist-sympathizing, Muslim imam. All of this would be cause for Americans to get upset, and no surprise, polls show we are.
But what if what we're being told are gross distortions mixed with bold faced lies?


Three simple fact checks help put the flap in context:
1) There is no "Ground Zero" mosque
If you take a minute to Google map the address of the supposed "ground zero" mosque, 45-47 Park Place, you'll find the proposed site is on a small city street buried in the middle of the block. It is separated by two full city blocks of towering buildings from the World Trade Center site. While the entire lower Manhattan might be considered "Ground Zero", the site of the mosque is separated visually and physically from the World Trade Center site. No one visiting the World Trade Center site will see it - unless they take a wrong turn on the way.


2) There is no "Victory" Mosque
The stated goal behind building the Muslim center in lower Manhattan is to recapture the spirit of mutual respect between Judaism, Christianity and Islam that existed in Cordoba, Spain, from 700 - 1200 AD. While Europe was trapped in the Dark Ages, marked by bloody religious repression, Cordoba thrived as a commercial and cultural center with what was, for the time, a high level of religious freedom. For example, in the 10th Century, Cordoba became the intellectual capital for Jews worldwide. The stated point of the project is creating a world where Jews, Christians and Muslims connect again in a way that builds mutual understanding and respect. This is precisely the opposite goal of the 9/11 terrorists.



3) There is no Terror-Loving Imam Behind the Mosque
The Imam behind the mosque, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is reported to have good relations with the Jewish community and has strongly condemned terrorism. He is precisely the kind of Imam that violent Islamic radicals despise the most. He has been lambasted in some quarters in the US for stating that American support of corrupt and coercive regimes in the Middle-east motivated the 9/11 terrorists. While the precise motivation of the terrorists may be subject for debate, his analysis can only dismissed blithely by those unfamiliar with the deplorable practices of American "allies" in Middle-east ranging from the Saudi regime to Egyptian government. But this misses the point; we don't have to agree with his analysis or the way he expressed himself to agree that in a free society, unless someone is engaged in criminal activity, they have the same rights as anyone else to build and operate a house of worship.


NOW, you would probably find our resident lets post anything with very little to no proof guys claiming it was written by a muslim, lets correct that now:

Representative, Seventh-day Adventist Church James Standish

Represents the Seventh-day Adventist Church to the United Nations. Deputy secretary general of the International Religious Liberty Association.

 

I agree with everything this guy say but you do realize your quoting a person from one of the most fundamentalist christian churches in the world don't you? Seems odd that someone who denigrates Christianity so much would use that as an authority for his argument.

 

Besides the US Constitution and the principles it articulates, there's this:

Dear Rest-of-America: Take This Map, It's Why You're Wrong About the "Ground Zero Mosque" - New York News - Runnin' Scared

Here's the map:

[IMGLINK]http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/tumblr_l77gx0WN7E1qz4u07o1_500.png.jpg[/IMGLINK]

And here are pics of just two of the unseemly places within 2.5 blocks of Ground Zero -- a strip club and a gambling parlor:

[IMGLINK]http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/assets_c/2010/08/groundzero02-thumb-550x309.jpg[/IMGLINK]

[IMGLINK]http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/assets_c/2010/08/groundzero16-thumb-550x309.jpg[/IMGLINK].

And as Jon Stewart and The New York Times have already mentioned, within 4 blocks from Ground Zero, there's already a mosque (and the world has not ended).

 

Fundamentalist has become such an ugly word.

The Seventh Day Adventists are different than the high profile bobble-head hate spewing fundamentalists we see and hear so much of.

You probably know this, but standing up for others religious freedom is what they do. James Standish was expressing that.
Adventist.org: The Official Site of the Seventh-Day Adventist World Church

I'm not religious and have a low opinion of a good share of mainstream organized Christian religion, but those people are OK in my book.

 

Now Treb, I think religion is bunk, and it is because its all fantasy land, but I believe in the Constitution, you know the thing you think is meaningless in most of your posts. And, I also believe in truth, something you don't like, I stated information that proves all the Ground Zero mosque haters have no clue as to where or what it is, its the blind following the blind in what they spout.

A religious guy, who posts information that is truthful, is no different from any other person that posts truthful information. You might try that.

 

i have to go along with the prez, "i said it was their right as americans, i didn't comment on the wisdom of the decision,"

and the there's harry reid, "bad idea".

 

Yup, popular speech and popular religions don't need the protection.
Unpopular speech and religions do, otherwise it's mob rule.

The shallow thinkers are all for mob rule as long as it's their mob making the rules. They can't think far enough ahead to realize what will happen to their rights when they are no longer the mob making the rules.

 

The rest of Standish's arguments:

Don't Give the Government Power to Ban our Houses of Worship

But there is a second disconnect. Americans have the right to build our houses of worship wherever we choose, as long as we lawfully purchase the land and build to code. Indeed, in 1998 the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act was passed to ensure this right is robustly protected. Do we really want to give the government the right to pick and choose which religions get to build where? Do we want Evangelicals banned from building new churches in neighborhoods where they are an unpopular minority? Do they want the majority to be able to decide where Mormon churches can be built, or Synagogues or Adventist Churches, or Catholic? We are all minorities somewhere in this country. Do we want the majority to be able to squelch our plans to build a house of worship?

Where is the fear of intrusive government when we need it? Where is the dedication to the First Freedom found in our Constitution when it really matters?

Stop Damaging American Security

The so called "Ground Zero" controversy has no doubt effectively raised the profile and filled the coffers of the politicians and advocacy organizations misleading the public. Scapegoating unpopular minorities is generally an effective way to gain power and influence. But it comes at a price. In this case, the price is not only the integrity and credibility of the individuals and organizations that raced to jump on this bandwagon. It is deeper and it is broader. This controversy has done much to stoke hatred against American Muslims at home and in the process, has made peaceful Muslims around the world doubt our commitment to equality and liberty. In so doing, these attacks on American Muslims gives fuel to violent Islamic radicals.

The politicians and NGOs that have stoked the "ground zero" mosque hoax should be seen for what they are - security charlatans. Their intolerance weakens our society and our allies, while strengthening our enemies.

Conclusion

Even if we are willing to abandon our constitutional right to freedom of religion, even if we are willing empower the government to pick and choose between religions, even if our conscience doesn't bother us when inflammatory remarks are made about a vulnerable minority, even if all this is true, it is indisputable that America's self interest at home and abroad lays in supporting peaceful voices in the Muslim community, not employing distortions to whip up the fires of prejudice against them.

 

huh?

 

I'm tempted.

 

GC are you getting all this?

 

1. It is being built on the site of the now empty Burlington Coat Factory Building. "Ground Zero" is owned by The Port Authority of NY & NJ. According to MSNBC the Burlington Coat Factory Building was damaged by a falling landing gear & sold for $8+ million dollars which is petty cash in NYC.

2. It's not even a mosque. It's a cooking school, basketball courts, and a prayer room.

3. A Moslem center has been in operation since 1970 (before the WTC was built) even closer to the WTC. There are also 2 churches in the neighborhood. Where's the outrage?

4. There are lots of empty storefronts in the neighborhood. Maybe everyone who is having a hissy fit would invest in the neighborhhod it would look halfway decent.

5. Since we don't want to or can't face the serious problems we have let's create a circus.

6. The obvious solution would be for NYC to amend their zoning laws to prohibit all non profit buildings. Just imagine the property tax revenue flowing in from all the churches & government buildings. If you want to attend services take a train to Jersey City, Hoboken, or Newark as there are plenty of "churches" there.

 

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I dont care about your farm, or your fish, or your park, or your mafia, or where you think a mosque shouldn't be built!!!

.....[IMGLINK]http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile-ak-snc1/object2/1455/123/n207382931457_3576.jpg[/IMGLINK]
[IMGLINK]http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/assets_c/2010/08/twintowers1-thumb-200x250.jpg[/IMGLINK]

 

I thought Prius owners were of above average intelligence. This thread reveals how wrong I was.

And, now someone brings in facts when it is so comforting for many to speak aloud their prejudices.

This history in Salon reveals that this is a manufactured two minutes of hate by our good friends on the Irrational Right.

How the "ground zero mosque" fear mongering began - Ground Zero Mosque - Salon.com