**Moved** Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Road rage and murder rates will probably go up when the speed limit drops

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

then let's raise it to 75. less road rage and murder!

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

sorry! must have misunderstood. thought you agreed with the law that people going the speed limit on a two lane road ought to pull over if they have 5 or more cars behind them.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

The laws in most states before 1973 were the 85th percentile. The speed is determined by traffic study.

At least in the history of texas, this method stopped working properely during nixon. He had encouraged cars to slow down to save gas, so the range of speeds of cars spread making roads less safe. The texas DOT and govenor at the time attempted to mandate a lower state speed limit to correct for this, the texas supreme court ruled they had overstepped their bounds and could only lower speed limits on dangerous roads not the entire state (each road lowered needed a study if the texas legislature did not change the law. In 1974 the federal lowered limit went into effect. In later years safety advocates with moneyed interests used bad statistics to keep the speed limit low, even though its existence and driver behavior had moved to the point of the speed limit being as low as the 5th percentile in some areas of the country making vehicle speed spreads less safe. The utube video that I flashed up showed what happens when the speed limit is civilly enforced and it is at a low percentile of the car speeds.

exactly, the current law allows you to go slow (slower than the posted speed limit) as long as you are in the right lane and not being like a rock in a stream and causing unsafe behavior. Tailgating is bad behavior but that other driver is causing it, unless you are blocking all lanes of traffic. Of course the new drunk driving enforcement around the country may get you pulled over as a suspected drunk driver if you are going much slower than the speed limit and traffic around you.

The first two laws have been proven in study after study to make the roads safer. When it takes longer to pass, the cars during passing are in a less safe configuration, and more likely to be in an accident if anouther event happens. 3 is common cutesy, but legal in many states. It is much easy to tell the flow of traffic if faster traffic is to the left. There is nothing pro speeding about those laws only pro safety. I suppose if you are trying to lower the speed limit, and want the speeding cars to have more accidents to prove they are immoral you may not like those laws. I would say that would be inflicting your religion on the country. Speeding is an infraction not a felony.

I don't think I'm a poor reader but your statement seemed to say you contributed to accidents because you were going an unsafe speed. You implied that we all needed to go slower to what? Protect you from seeing cars pass that can handle the 65mph speed limit?

Now it seems you were simply using bad examples with your story. The issue is lowering the speed limit to 55. I know of no place in the dallas area where you can legally park on either side of a 65mph road, so that is out. I doubt you were rear ended because you were speeding, in fact you stated it was from distracted drivers. How do any of these example related to lowing the speed limit, or safely driving the speed of traffic while it is slightly exceeding the limit?

I think you mean since you stopped speeding. Well that doesn't really seem like a fact in the argument, but good for you. I think everyone should go at a safe speed for them and for the road way.

Back in my grad school days I did ta some physics and statistics courses. I don't really know how physics would work differently in america than germany, so maybe, just maybe something else is going on. I also understand statistics, and the statistical and human factors in lowering the speed limit have a great deal of data. Only by recklessly abandoning the data can you think that a 55 mph speed limit on I10 would make it safer, and all you need is a few examples to understand why a national law does not make sense. I'm not sure where you see tortured logic. I don't think I made any personal attacks unless you think attacking a bad idea is personal. If I have I apologize.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Thanks, that was an excellent post.:rockon:

One minor point, in some (many?) states a speeding ticket doesn't rise to the level of misdemeanor, it is only an infraction.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

As was stated above, speeding is not a crime. Not a misdemeanor, not a felony, just an infraction.

I find it very interesting that we are given some really great examples of big government power grabs...Communist East Germany and Tibet are hardly exemplary states to cite.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

That (jburns suggesting I'm a poor driver - me responding he was a poor reader) was plainly directed at jburns - are you jburns?

It does not speak well of your reading or social skills if you are not jburns.

jburns goes after me for mentioning the collisions I was in while speeding or going faster, yet both you and jburns advocating going faster because you say collisions are less likely. You're now blasting me for doing what you are advocating.

It may not have been clear to you - a neighbor was illegally parked on the wrong side of the road - A RESIDENTIAL ROAD. The distracted driving rear enders could have been avoided if I had allowed had I allowed more buffer room - i.e. slowed down.

On the hit-and-run....that was a Saturday night...I was going 60 and the guy was going 85 on a 60, then you take a dig at me for not braking the law with him or ditching the car?

I'm sure if I gave a very detailed account, you would still prefer to attack it, oblivious as to how assine it would come off.

Again, I was recounting in my speeding past, then the speeding advocates attacked me! How mental can you get? So oblivious to undermining your position.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Back in 2005, when I opted to slow down from my average "cruising" speed of 70 mph to 55 mph (ugh) my gas mileage in my 1989 Integra went from 32 mpg to 38 mpg, which is approaching a 20% improvement.

I believe the gov't figure for the exact reason given (non compliance).

I agree with you on this last point, lowering the speed limit is the last thing the government should do. Carpooling, mass transit, and requiring more fuel efficient cars would go a ways to helping reduce oil consumption.

Reducing speed is another way to do it, it is free, and the ROI is immediate. Seems like a no brainer, doesn't it?

When do we start an "Imagine a highway with no tailgaters" thread? I'd like to see the accident incident between speed vs following too close. One only needs to watch a Restrictor Plate Nascar race to figure that one out.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Not at all, I just could see where jburns got that impression, its from you statement that you could have avoided those collisions if you weren't speeding. I am advocating that we should not institute a failed law to lower the speed limit. I also believe speed limits where they are safe should follow the 85th percentile as they did before the limits were dropped. This was set to minimize speeding and tailgating. If new information comes up for a different rule I would advocate that based on science. I have never told you to speed or travel at a speed that you feel would make you less safe.

In the first case, I was removing it from discussion since a national law would not have changed the speed limit. In the second case I was saying the accident was caused by the other driver, not you speeding. With the fuller description he was driving recklessly. We already have laws for that, we do not need new ones.

I am an advocate for good traffic laws. Your detailed accounts do not in anyway seem to indicate that a lower speed limit would have helped. If a lower speed limit would have helped, advocate that texas lowers that limit on those specific roads. I-35 going through austin is 55mph because higher speeds are not safe with the short on-ramps and off ramps. Unless you have other information I don't see, Texas laws not federal laws are the ones to look at in your case.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

And if it is not legal to pass on that stretch of road, yes I do.

If you look back at my Google maps example, the google van is WAY behind the log truck until we get to the 360 degree curve in the Lilliwaup swamp. Once in the curve, the Google van is right on the trucks tail, the truck is not able to stay ahead of the normal flow of car traffic in that tight turn. (Heck, even the motor home catches the truck) No one can pass in the 360 degree curve, double yellow lines. (and it would be very dangerous)

So, you can't pass, the truck can't speed up, no one can 'fix' this except by pulling over. Washington law simply states he must do so.

How fast if the log truck going? Does not matter, if he has 5 vehicles waiting, he must pull over by law.

(It is not clear to me, but the log truck may, itself, be impeded by a vehicle in front of it. I am not 'blaming' the log truck driver, it is just the example I have)

North Carolina has a similar law
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_136/GS_136-18.4.html
http://www.ncdot.org/doh/preconstruct/traffic/teppl/Topics/S-27/S-27d2.pdf

As does Tasmania, where they drive on the left side of the road.
http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/11680/tas05_604.pdf

Oregon's sign says "LAW REQUIRES SLOW MOVING VEHICLES TO USE TURNOUTS"
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/TRAFFIC-ROADWAY/docs/pdf/english_chapter_3.pdf?ga=t

(Not having read all these laws, they may specify that a slow moving vehicle is traveling under the speed limit, unlike Washington's and North Carolina's law)

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

o.k., i guess we do disagree then. i feel that if you are going the speed limit, then anyone following you should keep a safe distance and do the same. i am strictly speaking of a two lane road. if someone attempts to pass me at a dotted line, i always slow down and move as far right as safely possible, even if i'm hoping at the same time that there's a cop ahead to pull them over. i don't wish for an accident, especially for the innocent coming the other direction.
the other problem i have with that law is, how can anyone know the 'customary speed for a given road at agiven time of day'? is there any speed where you do not have to pull over? foolishness in my view and typical government doublespeak. i would love to be in on the conversation between the speeder and the cop as he tells him what is 'customary'.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Yes, if you are actively blocking those with the money to donate to the state's coffers via speeding, then I oppose that. I drive on the white line of the shoulder to let my fellow citizens donate to the state highway fund as they see fit.* I see enough Prius rage without strategies to block other citizens.

I can only speak to the WA and NC laws where we can see the text of the law, Blocking 5 vehicles appears to be evidence all on its own that it is usual and customary to go faster than I am. It is not a speed based law, it is impeding traffic that is proscribed. And it only applies when it would not be legal to pass me, double yellow lines. In that scenario, I must yield my place at the front of the train of frustration.

* MS highways get very rutted, so it is also smoother driving near the shoulder, with less hydroplaning.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

I wasn't flaming you. Just making an observation that seems to have struck a nerve.

You were involved in five accidents in 4 years. You are now changing your story. Previously you stated that your excessive speed was involved in "3 or 4" of the accidents. Now you claim you were rear ended three times. You're not a very good story teller either. I suggest you stop wasting time posting on here and take either a defensive driving course or one on creative writing.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

Well, there are two intertwined problems here. "Are you going too fast?" is merely a function of whether youre going at an unsafe speed. "Are you speeding?" depends on whether your speed is above some predetermined and posted limit.

I've been in other parts of the country where the speed limit is set at a reasonable limit, where anything further would be inappropriate.

Around here, the speed limits are set artificially low. You can be speeding but not going too fast.

Your line of thinking where no one should tailgate you is all good and fine in an area where the speed limits are set appropriately.

Around here, what "should" happen is not what WILL happen. Theory is irrelevant. Do 30 on one of our local 30mph posted two way roads and people WILL tailgate you, flash you, honk at you, even pass you on a double yellow. I've seen several near accidents because of this.

If this is a road you frequently travel, when people start doing this to you, that's how you know youre traveling below the customary speed. So speed up, or get out of the way. Forget your abstract reasoning - get with the reality of actually being on the road.

I've never ever been pulled over by a cop doing the "customary" speed, even with the cop directly behind me. Even the cops will tailgate you for doing 30 in a 30 here. They might actually even pull you over for suspected drunk driving, if you're actually driving at the limit, then you probably arent from around here and you might have something to hide.

You dont need to worry that youre going to be pulled over for speeding if you speed up. The cops almost certainly wont pull you over, and if theyre going to pull anyone over anyway itll be the guy behind you thats speeding AND following too close.

Of course, none of this means anything if the speed limit is sane. I have a feeling that all the people against speeding live in such an area, and think those that live in areas with artificial limits are some kind of psychopaths with a death wish. All we want is to travel at a reasonable and safe speed, and thats not necessarily whats posted.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

But only when safe to pull over. You are never required to pull over unless you can do so safely.

I have. I've watched entire groups of cars pulled over for going at the "customary" speed. Ohio is notorious for doing this.

Likewise I've seen cars pulled over for doing 60 on a 55 mph road, if they are foolish enough to do it on the reservation. The tribal police don't have a lot to do, so they are generally looking for any reason to pull someone over.

Tom

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

the one thing we need to address here is the most important reason why 55 is right.

reducing accidents is a major need. we have way too many of them, but the reason why this thread was started was to reduce gas consumption.

i posted a thread about Powering The Future a show on Discovery that addresses energy needs. they stated that if we continued as we are today and were to start TODAY to convert to clean energy with equal parts wind, solar and nuclear by the year 2050 (yes that is 40 years to build it!!!) we would have to;

build A nuclear plant every week

put up a large wind generator every 3 minutes

install 1800 m2 of solar panels EVERY SECOND.

now that is if we start TODAY. that is the amount of energy we need to provide if we continue on our wasteful ways. ( hopefully, this discussion will not segway into faster ways of building this stuff.)

so maybe we need to look at other ways to meet energy needs like "meeting in the middle". the energy we use today can be reduced by more than 80% by living more efficiently. but only 20-30% of that reduction is based on infrastructure issues (poorly designed or built houses and building, inefficient traffic controls, etc)

the rest of the reduction can be done by personal lifestyle choices... ya, thats right.

we dont have to build anything or spend a single cent to reduce our energy needs by more than 150%.

well, actually the not spend anything is not quite right. a lot of the foods we eat require huge amounts of energy to produce. most alternative options APPEAR to cost more, but are much healthier alternatives as well. wont get into details since that is not the purpose of this discussion (DaveinOlyWa not going off topic??!!! ALERT THE PRESSES!!!)
but factoring in the cost of long term health care and changes in diet could potentially save tons of money

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

it's always facinating to see a thread take of like this. peace my brothers and sisters!

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

To my knowledge, no documentation of a ticket issued as a result of EZ-Pass timestamps has ever been produced (you'll see people claim that they got a ticket, but never any evidence or specifics).

Timestamps have been used as evidence in criminal and civil cases after a subpoena is issued. There was one notable case in NJ where EZ-Pass was used to prove that the murderer drove to the coast to dispose of the body.

In NJ and NY, there is no basis in law to issue a speeding ticket based on EZ-Pass records. They do issue tickets for speeding through the tool booth, but that is just a regular camera trap. Many people incorrectly interpret what these tickets represent.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

No fair, you are trying to confuse the issue by using facts.

 

Re: Imagine a 55 mph Speed Limit

You are doing speeding advocates a disservice - I don't mind you undermining their position making dated assessments about my driving that would get you fired from an insurance company.

I've told that story about my driving record 5+ times and never got a response like yours, but then they were asking questions to understand rather than argue/pick apart at all costs.

As expected you completely dodged this question: What if you worked for State Farm Insurance and increased my rates with your judgement I'm a poor driver? I'd love for you to literally be in that situation as I have an excellent idea of how secure your job would be. My last six years - no tickets, only collision a hit-and-run that should have been jailed - no insurance company is going to ding that.

My story is the same as it ever was. I drove over the speed limit from 2000-2004. I did not anticipate enough or give enough bumper space like the typical speeder, so those three rear-enders happened. While the other guy got the ticket, my higher speed helped cause those collisions. You can't be a credible speeding advocate by saying it's safer then intellectually U-turn and condemn my past driving for doing exactly that.