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MPG decrease with new wheels

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by trentofdestiny, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. hotrod-realtor

    hotrod-realtor Junior Member

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    Tires were the ones that came on the rims. Michelin x green 215/45/17

     
  2. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    I think you are going to be dissapointed with the improvement just going to LRR tires in the 18 inch size as opposed to going back to the 15 inch OEM wheels. The larger diameter wheel puts the weight of the rim and tire on a longer moment arm (technical term for laws of physics) and by doing so it increases the torque required to rotate the wheel. Hence more energy is consumed to move the car, especially starting out from a stopped position. I dont know which issue is making the biggest impact on your fuel effeciency, but I would suspect thet the larger wheels are responsible for at least 50% of your loss.

    If you want to understand better, pick up a weight, say 2 or 3 lbs and hold your arm out fully extended, next tie that same weight to a 1 foot long stick and put it in your hand and hold it out just like before. You will feel the difference.
     
  3. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    I see what you are saying, and it makes sense for acceleration. But what about for cruise and decel? Wouldn't the extra effort to get it going translate into extra effort to stop it, meaning that it would have more inertia and coast further on it's own? My car actually slows down coasting where it used to speed up. I believe this is due to the tread width and/or pattern rather than the wheel diameter, but correct me if I'm wrong. :)
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I think the OD of your new wheel/tire combo is somewhat larger. I put it in my spreadsheet the other day, but then something bad happened... Anyway, I believe it was a bit over 1% increase. You can check it out with online tire calculators.

    So, you're actually going a bit further than the car claims. Also, the larger OD is lowering your gearing a bit, I think, helping with mpg.

    All in all, bigger/wider non-LRR tires are going to hurt. Our stock tire is 215/45R17, Michelin Pilot, and it's about neck-and-neck for mpg, comparing with the 195/65R15 Michelin X-Ice (snow tires) I put on through winter.

    (edited the above: the 195/65R15's are Michelin X-Ice)
     
  5. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    Not totally true, I graduated from Engineering school in 1971, so my memory isn't the best, but there are different energy vectors involved with a rotating mass. One is outward, or thechnically the Correolus (spelling?) component. It in itself requires more energy to maintain the rotation of the body and that component is non recoverable. I suspect this is part of the slow down you are experiencing when coasting because this Correlous component is not liner it is exponential. It's been a long time since I studied the physical aspects of mechanics in engineering school, but just reading in other forums on here about guys trying the 17 inch wheels even with LRR tires they still find a loss in MPG as compared to the OEM 15 inch size. Again it's exponential, so 1 more inch over the 17 inch wheels is a significant increase in resistance to rotation and loss of the ability to recover that portion of the energy used to achieve it. Also the energy necessary to maintain it once you get up to speed.
     
  6. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    Well as I see it there are two options: Get tires for these 18x8 wheels in size 225/40/ or 225/45/18, after much research I am thinking Yokohama AVID Ascend or Continental PureContact, or get said tires for 17x7 wheels in size 205/50/17.
     
  7. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    According to the tire calculator at Miata.net, the 225/40/18 are only 0.4% larger in diameter (25.1" vs stock 25.0") assuming all tires are the same, which they are not. Seems like larger OD and lower numerical gear ratio would make the drivetrain work harder to accelerate and use more fuel for the same rate of acceleration?

    Regardless, I really can't stand the noise from these Pirellis, due to the previous owner's tire wear.
     
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  8. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    You can expect zero mpg with 14 inch wheels as they wouldn't clear the brake caliper holders. ;)

    SCH-I535
     
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  9. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    You're not going to see a huge improvement with a good LRR 18" tire so just run the ones you have down and replace them with LRR ones later. It doesn't make sense economically to toss perfectly good tires. It's inevitable. You are going to suffer mpg loss when you upsize your wheels. Trust me. ;)
     
  10. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    I am thinking of going to the same DR38 wheels in 17x7 with PureContact 205/50/17 tires when I get some money. I understand you had these tires a while back. How are they? For now I'm back on the OEM 15s with Blizzak Revo1's for winter.
     
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I liked the handling and the fuel economy but they were too rough for my taste. They felt MUCH harder than the 205/50/17 EP422 I tried. Fuel economy between the two didn't seem much different, the ride was a lot better but handling took a nose dive. Damn trade offs. :)
     
  12. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    My first prius had the ecopia 15" tires and I much preferred the Yokohama 15" instead. But the contis seem to be way better at LRR and tread wear and even snow traction than the Yokos
     
  13. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    The OE Ecopia tires are Ecopia EP20. They are different than the aftermarket EP422 which is better but still sloppy. I liked the EP20 better than the OE Yokohama S33Ds but mainly from a comfort standpoint. :)

    The EP422 has good snow traction as does the PureContact. Think comfort vs. performance and you can make a better decision. :) The PureContact is the safer tire, particularly in wet conditions where it sticks like gangbusters!
     
  14. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    What about tread life? The ep20 was all but bald after 30k and the s33d was still 2-3/32 after 35k when I "retired" them. This made me want to get Yokohama yk580's but I found one of your posts about the avid ascend that said it was more LRR than the 580. Then of course I found the purecontact was higher rated for snow by consumers at tire rack. I had 18" ExtremeContact dws on my Mazda years ago and was happy with the comfort of those. Different tire though.
     
  15. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Probably about equal. The PureContact may last longer because of speed rating difference and such. The DWS is a great tire. I assume you read the TireRack test reviews on both tires? Not the consumer reviews.
     
  16. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    Yes the purecontact was rated higher than the avid ascend. Tire rack doesn't carry the yk580. As for the ep422 it was compared against the procontact rather than the purecontact but the ep422 has poor wet traction.
     
  17. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    If you can handle a lil rougher ride then go with the PureContact. It's the better and safer tire. :)
     
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  18. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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    Are you going to save any money ditching your free tyres and buying 18" LRR which may only give you marginal improvement in fuel economy?
     
  19. trentofdestiny

    trentofdestiny Master Finagler

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    No, I've decided to go back to 15" snow tires until I can afford to go to PureContact LRR (or something else) 205/50/17 on 17x7 wheels.
     
  20. Feri

    Feri Active Member

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    Be aware that the total diameter of 17" wheels is slightly less than the 15" wheels. thus slightly less economy.