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Multiple Issues with 2005 Gen II Prius - Need Guidance

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by tfrain, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Afternoon all,

    I've had the car for a few years now - Wow, maybe 5 years. it has had intermittent issues but nothing really major until now. I'll run through my stuff.

    Ongoing - not big deal to me so far
    1. Triangle of Death with the headlight leveler (HIDs) - I know I can fix this myself, it is intermittent, not a biggie to me.
    2. Passenger Headlight blinking out - I was going to try a new bulb, but haven't yet. I know this might not fix it, but I will just flip on and off If I get pulled over and ask the policeman "what headlight out?" and agree to fix it if pressed
    3. The fresh/recirc flap behind the glovebox making a constant noise of movement if in fresh mode. I know this is a known issue as well, and I just ignore it or if radio not on, flip it to recirc.
    4. Water pump for gas engine had to be replaced - had it done at dealer

    Now the new stuff:
    5. Had the Speedo display quit and the car not want to turn off - Was finally able to get it off and it hasn't repeated. I know replacement of the dash display is supposed to fix this
    6. SmartKey acting up - both my fob and wife's - it sometimes will not want to lock with either the fob or using the buttons on door/trunk. I hear it lock and immediately unlock with no beep. I can usually fiddle with it, unlocking and locking a few times to get it to lock. Unlock seems to work fine. Sometimes it will lock, then unlock and still beep as if it isn't getting the message that is locked fast enough or something - like "lock/unlock/lock beep" - sort of all at the same time. It sucks and is weird and frustrating.
    7. The A/C quit on me the other day. Was fine, went to a funeral, came out and hot air blowing from vents. Fan blows fine, MFD seems to be working ok. I haven't checked pressure in lines yet, but compressor is not running, and I am aware it is electric.

    My battery went dead at the airport one time and then a light got left on at the house once and the battery was kaput. I can't recall exactly, but the speedo blanking out was around this same time and I think caused me to replace the battery, suspecting an issue with it perhaps being the cause. Seeing as how the Prius battery at batteries plus was like $180, I replaced it with a lawn and garden battery that I properly vented and it has been doing fine. Reading 13.9 Volts according to the MFD diagnostic and my multimeter, so I don't think the battery is the issue.

    I pulled the DTCs from the car using method found on youtube, and did the HVAC diagnostics. Will attach.

    The HVAC diag blinked a "21, 23, 43" - which is solar sensor, pressure switch, and air outlet control servo motor (although all have "AC Amplifier" as the last item in the culprit list.

    The car has been well maintained and is not a piece of junk by any means. Has around 130,000 miles on it. I'm just frustrated by the rash of problems that have not been my experience with Toyota's prior to this vehicle. It is frustrating to have these types of issues with a Toyota as I have come to expect better.

    What do you guys think I should do FIRST. Trying to avoid taking to dealer as I loathe them.

    Prius Codes.JPG IMAG4946.jpg IMAG4945.jpg IMAG4944.jpg IMAG4943.jpg IMAG4942.jpg IMAG4941.jpg IMAG4940.jpg
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    fob batteries? door lock actuator? what is the 12v reading in the morning with everything off?
     
  3. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Thanks for your reply!! haven't checked 12 volt in the AM. But I will.

    And I should have clarified - my main concern right now is the doggone AC! It's about to get hot here in North MS! I just thought perhaps all these items could be related or point to one specific module or part based on experience on these forums.

    I was thinking of getting an AC amplifier to swap since it is fairly easy to change and I can resell easily. Just seems to be a lot of funky electronic gremlins other than the AC quitting.
     
  4. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Those are worthless DTC's, unless you are having audio/navigation issues.

    Combination Meter Display (AKA, Spedometer) has an extended warranty for certain model years/VINs. Call a dealer of your choice to run your VIN. If your VIN is covered, it is supposed to be fixed no questions asked. Just tell them about #5 from your initial post. Rental car is supposed to be provided while combo display being replaced.

    For AC work, make sure the place uses equipment dedicated for Toyota Hybrids. This is due to the ND-11 electric compressor oil. If they use equipment from conventional cars, PAG oil might get introduced causing you expensive misery. This being said, a dedicated AC manifold gauge and vaccum pump for Toyota Hybrid.

    Read Post #8 for miniVCI and Toyota repair manuals.
    Is there any other way of getting codes? | PriusChat

    Update your location. Being more specific helps as people could maybe better direct you to a better dealer or independent mechanic. If concerned about privacy, lie and put a neighboring city, or State. Put a region of the state or region of the U.S., if you want to be vague. Criminal hackers in China and Eastern Europe know more about you then you know about yourself.

    EDIT.
    What is the AmpHr rating of that lawn battery? The original equipment battery for SKS Gen 2 Prius is a 45Amp-Hr, 12V AGM Battery. Maybe that lawn battery is 12V, but substantially less then 45AmpHr?
     
    #4 exstudent, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  5. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many amp/hrs does it need to fire up the computers and engage the relays?
     
  7. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    I would think the amphours would only come into play if I were to boot the car and then sit for a period of time without going anywhere, or go through a long period of coasting without engaging the ICE, and letting the battery run the 12 volt accessories without any energizing from the traction pack.

    I may be wrong, and I realize the prius was designed with a certain battery in mind, but I believe I have read users on this forum utilizing similar battery setups. I was just going to be aware of my usage so as to not get in a situation where they deep cycle capacity of the battery would come into play.
     
  8. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    First, know that I pretty much DON'T know what I am talking about....but last summer, our Camry did something like you are talking about with the air conditioner.

    It's a 2003, not a hybrid, and I don't remember exactly -- I could try calling my husband, but he's on the West Coast and still at work....anyway...turns out there was a big white relay in the fuse box that was sticking (I think).

    One solution was to take it out, smack it around a bit and then re-install. The other was spend $25 at Napa for an Echelin replacement relay and be done.

    So....you might want to see if the Prius even has such a relay, and if it is working O.K.

    It was a quick, easy and relatively cheap fix for the Camry.
     
  9. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Correct. The Prius doesn't need much to power up the ECUs and relays; don't know what the bare minimum is, but its not much.

    Correct w/ regards to Amp-Hour capacity. The larger the better, as it will give you more reserves. You could sit in the car in Accessory mode, and listen to the radio for a longer period of time w/o running the battery down and not being able to "start" the car, compared to a smaller Amp-Hour capacity battery. Or, the car could sit for a longer period of time, discharging, and still be able to start the car, compared to a smaller Amp-Hour battery.

    The Duracell battery you got looks to be a traditional wet cell battery. The problem with this may be spilled acid and fumes in the passenger cabin. AGM batteries have very little "fluid," and produce less fumes compared to wet cells during the charge/discharge cycles.

    If you get the repair manuals from TIS, it provides a very comprehensive trouble shooting list for the AC. Most here don't seem to tackle AC problems. Getting miniVCI will be helpful too, as you can correctly pull any and all codes and subcodes.
     
  10. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Ah rating is important if the car sits for any length of time without being driven. The quiesced current draw is about 20 mA on non-SKS and about 50 mA on a SKS (assuming no additional after-market accessories). Toyota adds an extra 10 Ah to the SKS battery, which 45 Ah.

    Pair this with the Prius' very gentle charging circuit and it could take quite a while for a partially discharged battery to achieve full charge. The smaller the battery capacity, the bigger the implications of this.

    You could check your battery and/or charge it and see how long it take to fully charge.
     
  11. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Do you guys think the non-prius battery could be causing this? I will check the battery this afternoon after sitting all day. My wife has been driving to gym in the morning (since it is cool), but it will have sat all day.

    additionally, I was thinking of just going ahead and trying an AC amplifier (salvage part) to see if it resolves AC issue. Can always resell if it stays the same.

    Thoughts? Comments?

    And thanks so much!
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no. not the type, but possibly the health. let us know the standing voltage after the cars been off for a few hours. don't open the drivers door to open hood latch, that draws the battery down. the a/c is complicated, and can be expensive to fix. not that unusual on a 10 year old car.

    did you check your fob batteries?
     
    #12 bisco, Jun 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  13. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Updates:
    1. Determined the door lock issue is caused by the driver door lock servo not quite being strong enough to lock the door completely, which is why after a few tries, it will lock sometimes. If I lock that door manually when I get out, close and then lock with fob all is fine. So not an electrical issue per se. Not a big deal.

    2. Battery shows 12.4 volts after sitting. i think the battery is healthy and is not causing any problems.

    3. Swapped the AC amplifier and still have no AC. It is now showing 21 and 23 - the 43 code went away. This has me bummed as I was hoping this was it.

    Any recommendations on what to do next? I was going to run through the AC troubleshooting, specifically checking the connections on the back of the AC amplifier as shown in the manual with a multi meter. I have no way of testing to see if there is freon in the system right now. There would be no pressure showing anyway without the compressor running, right? I never had an event where freon would have leaked out that I know of. The compressor should come on when called anyway, and then would shut down if pressure switch didn't indicate pressure rise, right?

    Just not sure what path to take now.
    Thanks all!!

    Tom
     
  14. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Oh also, I've checked the fuses by driver's feet. I unplugged and replugged the relays above the motor. Didn't mess with anything in the big panel on driver's fender. Which specific fuses or relays do I need to make sure are working?
     
  15. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    The code 21 went away - realized I was parked in shade so moved to sun and it is gone now.

    Ok so using the service manual, I jumpered terminals 1 and 4 on the pressure switch, turned it on and the compressor started humming, but didn't cool. I think I am low on freon or all the freon leaked out.

    Anybody know where I can get freon that already has the ND11 oil in it?
     
  16. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Could I just use R134A with no additives? Or does it have to be the kind with hybrid oil in it?
     
  17. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    I ordered the interdynamics hybrid r134a from amazon. I realize I most likely have a leak, but perhaps my amplifier was bad (only code shown now is the 23 for the pressure switch) and overpressurized causing it to vent out. I had that happen with our odyssey when a relay stuck closed. If it does leak down, I'm only out 22 bucks and hopefully will indicate the source of the leak.
     
  18. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Here are my recommendations:

    1. Get Mini VCI so you can obtain the real DTC and do not have to rely upon blink codes.
    2. Subscribe to techinfo.toyota.com so that you have access to the electrical wiring diagram and the AC system pressure specs. You do not want to overcharge the system.
    3. There is no issue using regular R-134a refrigerant that contains no compressor oil. In fact that is preferred. You don't want refrigerant that contains regular compressor oil and you have no idea about whether any ND-11 oil is even needed. Use a charging hose that has a low pressure gauge so that you do not overcharge when adding refrigerant.
    4. Obviously, if the problem is lack of refrigerant charge, then refilling the system is a temporary measure. You need to determine where the leak is coming from and fix it.
     
  19. tfrain

    tfrain Prius Rookie

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    Thank you very much!
    So this Mini VCI (I assume I need to look it up on here) is different from a regular code reader?

    I have the service manuals that I found someone in google docs. Have been using, and what I used to jumper the pressure switch to determine compressor was good.

    OK, on the r134a. I wasn't sure about that as some folks were saying you would probably lose a couple ounces of oil with a leak, plus if it is low in the line or out of compressor itself, it might drain out, BUT I also read there was an oil separator in the compressor. My feeling was the risk of adding a couple ounces of oil from the interdynamics with hybrid oil would be outweighed by the insurance of adding some if it ALL drained out from a leak low in the system.

    Will use one with a low pressure gauge. Was going to get the whole manifold, but is overkill for me right now. Will combine low pressure gauge with a thermometer in vent. Hopefully if leaking I can detect it and it is in an easily identifiable are.
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Mini VCI can be purchased from several suppliers on Amazon.com for example. There is no comparison between that and a regular code reader with regards to Toyota vehicles.

    Mini VCI essentially provides you the same diagnostic capability as the Toyota dealer tech using Techstream on a laptop, because Mini VCI is bootlegged Techstream.