Featured Munro eats crow

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The initial Munro review of the Model 3 was widely quoted as it found problems with 'fit and finish' in their car. But they continued and have this to say:



    'expecting 30% profit margin'

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    He self admitted "eat(ing) crow". But he is too hard on himself (that's a virtue) and what he did was nothing to be humiliated about but praised.

    He appears to be neither fanboy or hater. He continued to accumulate data with his analytical approach and refined his conclusion. Sometimes this leads to a very different perspective. Good on him!
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    impressive. is that 30% at any price point/package? i.e. will it be on the stripped 35k model?
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    didn't hear him mention fit and finish, assume he is happy with what is coming off the line?
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    When I looked at one in the local showroom, fit and finish of exterior looked really good, but I am sure that there are bad copies. Its not going to be at the same level as a mercedes S or lexus ls, but really it was good, and doesn't detract. I'm sure they can continue to work on it, and get it world class if they want to do it. The paint shop, and inspection prior to paint probably need to be upgraded. The interior does not have the design, fit, and finish you would expect from a $46K car (that is premium package $5k, 220 mile battery, autopilot $5K). I'm sure this is where they saved money. IMHO the seats are very comfortable, with a ton of adjustments. They are much better than the initial seats in the model S and prius ;-) but not as nice as the ones I had my my lexus GS. They don't have an option for leather, but its a nice synthetic. Dash is nice and minimalist, but there could be a heads up display and a couple more buttons to make it seem like its worth the price. The parts that you don't touch look nice, but don't feel like great quality, but that is a great place to save money and pay for the motors and battery. It seems most of the fit and finish complaints were on cars built before April. I'm sure its not all solved complaints have died down, either because its better, or people have lowered expectations.

    I didn't know until this review that part of the efficiency gain was using SiC in the inverters/power electronics. This is a tech that toyota has talked about improving efficiency of the prius but wasn't ready when the gen 4 rolled out. I wonder if they will add it to the prime.
     
    #5 austingreen, Jul 16, 2018
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you think they would have looked at a newer one to at least provide contrast.:rolleyes:
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Upcoming Episodes – John's Journal on Autoline

    Show # Topic Panelists YouTube Live Premiere
    1 431 Munro Sandy Munro Munro & Associates; Craig Cole AutoGuide.com; Gary Vasilash AD&P; John McElroy Autoline.tv August 16 2018 @ 3:00PM EST

    Let me suggest sending an e-mail with follow-up questions: [email protected]

    Please ask Sandy to address the Tesla Model 3 seats. Elon pulled seat manufacturing in-house when an earlier model Tesla was delayed by a slow seat subcontractor. What are the good and bad points of the in-house Model 3 seats and costs relative to others or industry practice?

    Sandy mentioned the extra body parts and complexity in an earlier video. Elon has suggested this is to improve crash protection. Does Sandy have an update on the body complexity versus crash worthiness and weight?

    Another YouTube disassembled a Tesla tire and found a series of foam blocks. Did Sandy find any good and bad news about the Model 3 tires?

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    After car and driver, consumer reports, and others had problems tesla has changed somethings. I would guess the model 3 is still changing. Maybe they should test again in November when production and design are more stable.

    The complaints were braking distance, fit and finish, road noise coming into the cabin, ride comfort.

    Tesla has responded to all of these, but they seem to make monthly changes. They changed ABS braking software to decrease braking distance, it still is a heavy car, so it won't be best in class without more expensive better brake pads at least. These are available after market, but with autopilot hopefully you won't need to emergency break often at all, and we all have been able to stop our prius with worse brakes in time. Great brakes are available with the performance package, but then you are talking around $80K for the car.

    Road noise had a change in windshield and sound deadening. This likely added a little cost and weight, so initial weight is probably wrong now. It is a quieter car according to recent reviews. Lack of sound deadening in my prius just had me turn the volume up, but this is a much more expensive car.

    Ride comfort according to edmunds probably had a lot to do with tuning the suspension initially for the 19" tires, but people testing the 18". Tesla has since changed suspension tuning and reduced air presure recomendations on the 18" from 45 psi to 42 psi (hyper miles may pump them up still for longer range in city driving ;-))

    As for exterior fit and finish. The latest WSJ review talks about how they improved it, and it probably is mainly a problem with shipping the car before the process was ready.

    The very first test drive of Tesla’s Model 3 Performance: ‘The car is a star. Doubters will have to bring it’ - MarketWatch
    On vertically integrating seat manufacturing, this is old school GM type thinking. Toyota's production system really is better. Yes tesla had trouble when they were low volume, but now they are bigger and more stable. Letting the experts with lower labor costs and higher capacity produce your seats allows a company to be more lean and ramp production. Here is what WSJ (link above from marketwatch to avoid the need of a subscription) saw in the factory.

    On extra body complexity, I don't see it, what did he say. On tires, almost universally in reviews, the 18" OEM tires appear noisier with less grip than on competitors (bmw 3, audi 4, mercedes C), and this is likely a choice for lower rolling resistance and higher city mpg on the epa test and real life. The tires are available (both 18" and 19" and even the performances 20" in those other sizes) at tire shops. I'm sure if the tires aren't up to snuff, people will be buying other tires as replacements, if they are great, other people will be buying them for their cars. As an aside the tires on the performance the michelin pilot 4s are actually cheaper than the oem tires in 18" size, but will reduce range as they increase comfort and grip.
     
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