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My first hybrid, hello.

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by buzz.killington, Mar 12, 2021.

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  1. buzz.killington

    buzz.killington Junior Member

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    Hi! I have been lurking this forum for the past few weeks. I'm excited and glad to see such a helpful community of owners.

    I will be purchasing my first Hybrid and it will be a Prius. I live in the Southern California region and travel 80 miles for work. This car would be a daily driver.

    Ok so here is my dilemma. I don't know if I should get a used or new Prius.

    Initially I was looking at 2012-2017 models due to the price range.

    • Cars under $10,000 are over 130,000 miles. I assume I should factor in a replacement battery, if it hasn’t be replaced. $1,400? (Regarding a replacement battery is greenbeanbattery recommended, since it's a 5 year warranty?) Should I factor in anything else that might go wrong?
    • Cars under $13,000 are around 80,000 miles. I'm slightly leaning toward this option since, I won't have to replace the battery. (Also when do the batteries usually have issues around 130,000 miles?)
    • Cars under $20,000. I did see some rumbling of users getting new Prius' for under 20,000 ODT. This might require a flight to a different state. I have not got a chance to go through the 200 + pages of that thread to fully grasp this. This seems interesting if it's possible.

    Can anyone give me some input or direction on how I should proceed?

    I'm also aware of the rampant theft of catalytic converters, so I will be purchasing a shield.
     
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  2. Prii_Ownr

    Prii_Ownr Junior Member

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    Welcome!

    I would consider select 2015 or later models due to engine oil consumption issues on earlier models.

    Hybrid battery warranty in California is 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first.
     
    bisco, SFO and buzz.killington like this.
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome! i would go new, or at least gen4 (2017+) gen3 has way more issues than just the hybrid battery.
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    If you've read very many posts on this site, you'll see many MANY recommendations for you NOT to get a used hybrid, so you may want to approach it from the standpoint of why you would NOT want to buy a used Prius (or any other used car) and work the math from the other side of the equal sign.

    How much stick time do you have with Priuses? Hatchbacks?
    How are you going to pay for this car?
    How handy are you at working on cars?
    Do you have a place to actually work on your car?
    How sensitive are you to repair bills with a comma in them?
    You said that you travel 80 miles for work. Is that one way?
    How sensitive is your job about absentees? Arriving late?
    Do you have a spare car?
    Can you possibly wait about 9 months? (now is a HORRIBLE time to buy a car!)

    The car in your profile (2012 PiP) is just about the same as a wireless Prius, only with a bigger battery and a smaller fuel tank, and because they were insanely expensive in 2012, they were mostly adult driven.
    If I were in the market for a used Prius, a Plug-in would be #1 or #2 on my short list. (Prius C would also rank high!)
    HOWEVER (comma!!!!!!) adult driven is *not* necessarily the same as being well-maintained.

    Pro Tip:
    Neither is "dealer maintained." ;)

    If your idea of proper vehicle maintenance is tossing the keyfob on a dealership service manager's desk, and hoping that they will be gentle with you, then I would mark 9 year old hybrids down as a hard pass, and give up the 10-15mpg.
    The truth is that MOST PEOPLE in the SoCal who buy Priuses maintain a 'closed hood' maintenance philosophy.....which is why the second search term you should use in this forum (after "buy a used Prius") should be "head gasket +EGR".

    This is not necessarily meant to reflect ill on people who live in the PRC, but the third leading cause of Prius Catalytic Converter theft is "curbside parking" and let's face it......if you're subletting your garage to help pay for your 1200 square foot, $350,000 house - or if you're living your best apartment or condo life, then working on cars is probably NOT convenient!


    Me?
    If I needed another car I would buy a used Prius IN A HEARTBEAT.

    But.....

    *I can write a check for the car.
    *I can write a check for a traction battery, transaxle [sic], inverter, regenerative brake system, and install them myself. (these are systems that 8-year-old non-hybrids do NOT have)
    *I can legally replace a Prius Catalytic converter for $200.
    *I can illegally drive a Prius WITHOUT a catalytic converter for years without anyone but me knowing or caring about it. (DON'T do this!)
    *I have spare cars.
    *I live 3 miles from work.
    *I don't punch a clock.

    You see where I'm going here......
    Good Luck with your search!!
     
    #4 ETC(SS), Mar 17, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  5. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    @Buzz. I like that name;) Besides what's been mentioned above is there anything else you'd like to zero in on regarding your search for a car? Things you have possibly read here with conflicting view points, which there are a LOT of. Long threads that you are interested in that are really really long and have wandered off the main topic several times before you get to the end, yes there are many of them too.

    How long have you been in the S.Cal area, just curious since my experiences of the eastern killington zone were in vermont.:D
     
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  6. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Welcome to PriusChat!!
    If round trip, then 20k+ per year. How many years/miles will you be wanting to keep this vehicle?
    Avoid 10-15, unless you're a DIYer, or have an interest (like myself) in actively keeping a 'failing head gasket' rolling down the road.
    New OEM diy batteries start at 1650+ taxes and core deposit, if self installed. This assumes you can find a dealer that will sell to you at that price or over the counter, many won't. Aftermarket packs range from 1600 total, which includes shipping, to 2100++ for the Lithium pack, both would also be a DIY install.

    Few would ever recommend a used pack from greenbean (falcon, etc), or any purveyor of used/rebuild/reconditioned packs at those price points (though there are other used options). Best to buy "new", or fix it yourself if you have the skill set or know someone who does.
    Plenty of things to factor in, best to do the research and prepare for the worst if relying on someone else to fix your hybrid problems.
    Besides the hv battery, there is the catalytic converter (CA, MA, NY), head gasket, and brake actuator/accumulator assembly.
    If you go this route, you could be replacing the HV battery in 3-5+ years given a projected mileage of 20k+ per year (or half that at 40k+).

    HV battery longevity (and failure) depends on a bunch of random factors, like driving style (do you drive hard, then park it hot?), generous usage of the AC, overriding the HV battery fan speed, do you park it in a garage, carport, or in the shade with the windows cracked, did you install ceramic tint to keep the interior cooler, do you top balance or cycle the HV battery pack, did you clean any corrosion that forms, etc. These things may help a HV battery last well past 200k, other times not so much.
    This may not save a catalytic (but a good idea), as we have reports that shields are being cut off before being stolen again. You might also add a tilt sensor on a factory / aftermarket alarm system. Haven't heard of a single gen4 being hit for catalytic converters, yet.
     
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  7. buzz.killington

    buzz.killington Junior Member

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    Thanks for your input

    I thought 2016 would also be part of gen4.
     
    #7 buzz.killington, Mar 28, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2021
  8. buzz.killington

    buzz.killington Junior Member

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    I guess I have been looking at it from the wrong approach.

    How much stick time do you have with Priuses? Hatchbacks?
    No stick time in a Prius. Had a Scion xB for 12 years, would consider a slight hatchback.
    How are you going to pay for this car?
    7500 down payment. Finance the rest.
    How handy are you at working on cars?
    Slightly. Can change oil, brakes, spark plus, pcv valve. Watched Nuts and Bolts video about cleaning the EGR, I can do that.
    Do you have a place to actually work on your car?
    Yes
    How sensitive are you to repair bills with a comma in them?
    Slightly sensitive. Depends it it's 1000 vs 3000. Can put it on credit but would prefer to get rid of the debt asap.
    You said that you travel 80 miles for work. Is that one way?
    Round trip
    How sensitive is your job about absentees? Arriving late?
    Flexible. I'm curious about this question. Can you give me some insight about it?
    Do you have a spare car?
    No
    Can you possibly wait about 9 months? (now is a HORRIBLE time to buy a car!)
    No, car was totaled and new a vehicle.

    I don't have a Prius, it was required to list a model to join this community.


    Understood. Also learned about the long service recommendation for oil changes can cause junk to build on the 3rd gens. Well in general that can happen but with the piston ring issue, it doesn't help.

    Thanks for your input and advice.
     
  9. buzz.killington

    buzz.killington Junior Member

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    Based on the input received above I assume I should focus on the 4th gens. Honestly, my main goal it to pay of the vehicle in 12-18 months. Is assume the general rule of thumb to go for a low mileage vehicle. Saw some nice 4th gens but they were at 70,000 miles....

    Been in California my whole life. Didn't know that their was a Killington region in the upper north east. :)

    If round trip, then 20k+ per year. How many years/miles will you be wanting to keep this vehicle?
    Good question, I would say max 10 years. Probably around 8.
    HV battery longevity (and failure) depends on a bunch of random factors, like driving style (do you drive hard, then park it hot?), generous usage of the AC, overriding the HV battery fan speed, do you park it in a garage, carport, or in the shade with the windows cracked, did you install ceramic tint to keep the interior cooler, do you top balance or cycle the HV battery pack, did you clean any corrosion that forms, etc. These things may help a HV battery last well past 200k, other times not so much.
    I drive slightly aggressive, like to go around 75-80 on freeway. I understand I will have to change my driving habit with a Prius. Will be generously using the AC, I will choose a white Prius which should help slightly. Will be parking in a driveway. Will install ceramic tint to help keep interior cool.
     
    #9 buzz.killington, Mar 28, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2021
  10. SeattleBebop1

    SeattleBebop1 Active Member

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    You're in CA!! That is Mecca for used Prii; you don't need to fly!! I got my Prius Prime from Clovis and had it shipped to WA. If you are OK with 40K-60K mileage, you can find a Prime (Gen 4) or regular Gen 4 for under 20,000. Mine, when all is said and done (taxes, shipping, pre-inspection purchase, interest, etc.) will run me around $20K. Check out and monitor places like CarGurus, Edmunds, Kelly Blue Book, Carvana, etc. just to get an idea of what the market is like.

    Here's a very useful video to explain what's a fair used car price. I felt good about my purchase because it lined up with what this former car salesman indicated:
     
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  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    The G4 is proving to be a pretty good car, and they're all at least 5 years old now so their long term problems have had a chance to express themselves (piston rings, egr pipes, lackamaintenance, etc...)
    If you're not put off by the looks of the things....they're a solid buy now.

    Your financial goal is pretty solid as well.
    I would cast a net well outside the People's Republic in choosing one since in many parts of the nation (i.e. where gas is only about $2.20 a gallon) the price differential can exceed the cost of airfare and gas back.
    It depends on how you value your time, of course.

    @ driving habits:
    I don't see where this is specifically necessary. A Prius travelling at 80 with the A/C maxed out is still more efficient than a Honda or a Corolla at the same speed and HVAC settings.
    My company car gets around 50mpg if I hypermile a little, and about 45 if I drive like a norm.
    Of course.....YMMV.

    @ Traction battery.
    I often speak of the many disadvantages of living behind the curtain on the left coast, but one of the ADVANTAGES is the additional CARB warranty you get from cars in California that cover emissions and hybrid components for (??) something like 10years and 150,000 miles.
    ...one of these components is the hybrid battery. ;)

    There's more mythology and urban legend surrounding CARB warranties than there are about politicians offspring...and there's a near zero percent chance that you'll get good guidance on this from a Toyota Dealer.
    Even on THIS site there are layers upon layers....but Toyota itself covers the traction battery for 8y/100k so the difference between the two coverages may not be worth scaling the mountain of myths and regs....
    YMMV
    CARB Warranty Ins-and-Outs (and In-Out-Ins) | PriusChat

    Here's the thing.
    Based on my experiences (YMMV) there's a MUCH greater chance that your HVAC system will fail in 10 years/150,000 miles and generally speaking it's about a $1500 fix for either one.
    In fairness I'm quoting a dealer fix for the former and a DIY fix for the latter, but the truth is that the traction battery is not the Achilles heel for these vehicles that every makes them out to be.


    Ok...so this is for a G2, but batteries are batteries.
    You G4's use a little different chemistry, but the battery is in more or less the same place, and most of the steps and components (cells, wires, thermistors, fans, nutz/bolts) are more or less the same.

    The POINT is that plus or minus a few hundred bucks, the batteries can be reconditioned for more or less the same price for most any wireless (non-PHEV) Prius.

    Good Luck!
     
    #11 ETC(SS), Mar 29, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
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