My P0A080 fault code and battery rebuild

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by fotomoto, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    4,812
    3,129
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    I have a used, mint 2006 with only 46,000 miles (PO was a little ol' lady) but I recently got the dreaded dashboard warning lights display and a car that instantly began running poorly (low power, ICE running much more/higher RPM) with the battery bars rising and falling much quicker than normal. I had also let the car sit with little use for several weeks.
    IMG_2024.JPG

    As a long time PC member I knew my options:

    1) Sell or trade in and let it be someone else's problem ($$$$$)
    2) Go to Toyota dealer for a new battery installed w/3yr warranty ($3,000-3,500)
    3) Get Toyota battery and install myself w/1yr warranty ($2,500)
    4) Go aftermarket remanufactured battery by installer or DIY w/? warranties ($750-$2,500)
    5) DIY repair and replace bad module(s) ($40-50)

    I chose #5 because I recently purchased the car ($$$), I'm a DIY kind of person, and it came pre-installed with a grid charger wiring harness. It was installed by a family member of the PO but they kept the charger unit as they also had an aging Gen3 to use it on. I mention this because one thing being stressed about pack rebuilds is to balance the replacement module to match the others before use.

    So, I purchased a prolong charger and discharger unit (sans harness) and tried to recondition the POA80 pack via their 3 stage process but unfortunately it was DOA like I thought.

    I watched a good video on pack removal and removed it myself. It's heavy but doable if you're in reasonable shape but if in doubt get a helper.


    Taking my time, I disassembled the pack with caution. I measured each of the 28 modules, recording the values, and quickly determined #12 located in the middle 3rd of the pack was defective @ 1.33v lower.


    IMG_2048.JPG


    The good news was the remaining 27 were within .01 or .02v of each other from the reconditioning treatment. I also saw the PO had replace #20 about a year earlier on the other side of the middle third segment.

    IMG_2061.JPG

    Next I did a load test with a headlight bulb and results jived with the simple voltage test. So, I ordered one replacement module for $50 shipped.

    IMG_2049.JPG

    The bus bars were heavily corroded.

    IMG_2050.JPG

    So I cleaned them with the home-brew mixture of equal parts white vinegar and salt which worked GREAT. Then a mix of baking soda with distilled water as a rinse. I also used a wire brush as final scrubbing and cleaned all the wire and sensor contact points.

    While waiting for the module's arrival, I was looking at all the recorded values from each voltage test and noticed that the outer modules were consistently outperforming those on the interior. It's been pointed out that there seems to be a trend with module failures in the middle of the pack with the thought being more heat/stress which makes sense to me. So I decided to rearrange the entire pack by moving the middle third out to the edges and vice versa. So the middle of the pack module arrangement now looks like this:

    IMG_2054.JPG




    I haven't read about this "shuffling of the deck" being done before so I think I'm testing uncharted waters and hope it's beneficial. I then reinstalled the pack and began another 3 stage charge/discharge routine per prolong's instructions. This took me about a day to do each one. I did this in my garage with a large box fan also blowing on the battery (and me too). The pack, which was also running the hybrid fan, never got warm to the touch.

    IMG_2081.JPG


    IMG_2082.JPG
    The car is running much better now! Previously, the ICE would still run for 10-15 secs at every stop even though the power flow diagram had no arrows! MPG is way up and the ICE shuts down at a stop like it's suppose to and no codes are being thrown.

    IMG_2086.JPG


    I'm hoping this repair and periodic use of the grid charger will buy me one more year before going with options #2 or 3.
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    14,132
    6,835
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    You probably don't want to do repeated charge/discharge cycles on that battery. The reason Toyota restricts the battery to a SOC 40% - 80% range is to give the battery extra longevity. If you do charges/discharges regular exceeding the 40%-80% limits, this will greatly reduce the battery life. You may show/feel a short term gain by doing this, but in the long run, your battery will last much longer if you just do those balance "top ups" when needed, and not on a regular basis.
     
    #2 JC91006, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
    roflwaffle likes this.
  3. aaroncv3

    aaroncv3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    95
    50
    0
    Location:
    Yucca Valley
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Wow, great idea. I have a 2006 with 163K and I can tell that HV battery service is in my not-too-distant future. The previous owner had swapped one or two modules before I owned the car. Poor Prius has been used and parked in the hot Texas sun for the past year, so it seems expected.

    I need a better understanding of the cycles of charging/discharging to balance the modules. (Your picture of the fuel economy screen is quite sexy!) Can you recommend a thread or some videos on balancing?
     
    Turbogrampa likes this.
  4. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    4,812
    3,129
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    I'm going to follow the recommendations by prolong and see what happens. I know what doing nothing does.

    Finding info on that has been somewhat hit/miss here but a good source can be found at prolong's site. Just read the short instructions on charge, discharge and load testing. Prolong Grid Charger Product Guides – Hybrid Automotive Other methods use home-brew RC chargers; search grid charging here on PC.

    hope this helps
     
    aaroncv3 likes this.
  5. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    1,355
    470
    0
    Location:
    District 6
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Option 5 total cost was the module plus the Hybrid Automotive Prolong charger. So ~$300 more than $50 until you
    sell the Prolong. Just saying.
     
    j12piprius likes this.
  6. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    4,812
    3,129
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Yup, like I said it was somewhat a no-brainer since the heavy lifting (harness installation) was already there. I'll still keep the charger to use for periodic balance of the new batt when the time comes.
     
  7. aaroncv3

    aaroncv3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    95
    50
    0
    Location:
    Yucca Valley
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    $300 doesn't seem like a hit if it's something you can use again and again, and even on the next Prius. Just saying.
     
    Kevin Cecchini likes this.
  8. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    590
    608
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    It all depends on the current. At 350mA, the battery can be cycled from 0%-100% many times without adversely impacting battery longevity. In fact, the increased life from eliminating the voltage depression memory effect and restoring lost capacity far outweighs the minute cycle absorption from reconditioning the pack at a current as low as our systems employ.

    Now if you are doing it at 1A or more as is done with the hobby chargers, then we it will be much harder on the battery and consume a lot more cycle life. But this is not the case with our products. :)
     
    calin.ceascai, j12piprius and SFO like this.
  9. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    1,355
    470
    0
    Location:
    District 6
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The $300 wasn't a "hit". It was a substantial added cost until fotomoto sells it. You can do this repair without a grid charger and get acceptable results.
     
    j12piprius and Dxta like this.
  10. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    590
    608
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius

    You can't recondition the battery inside the car without our products. If their is other products that do this they are infringing on our patents and we would like to talk to them ;). To do this without our products, you would have to remove the battery from the car each time you want to perform maintenance charging on it. Battery reconditioning and ongoing maintenance is not a onetime event. A one-time battery reconditioning will not deliver lasting results - this is why reconditioning has a bad rap, because people do it once then never again.

    Prolong Battery Systems allow for unlimited battery reconditioning for the remaining life of the vehicle. Our products enable you to easily have Plug-and-Play battery rebalancing and reconditioning as often as you would like. Routine battery reconditioning and cell rebalancing are what extend the life of the battery for the long term.
    How frequently should I use the Prolong Battery Charger Discharger on my hybrid battery? - Hybrid Automotive
     
    calin.ceascai likes this.
  11. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    4,284
    3,024
    1
    Location:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    fotomoto,
    Plenty of people long before you have done "shuffling" of the modules.
    It's just one more variable to add in when working on a failing pack.
     
    fotomoto likes this.
  12. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    1,355
    470
    0
    Location:
    District 6
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    You can't change out a module inside the car either, Jeff - well.........maybe YOU could but it would be really difficult, LOL!!!!

    fotomoto tried to recondition his HV battery when it had a failed module and he wasted several hours in the process because he apparently did not know how to troubleshoot the P0A80 properly. And - when there is a failed module in a pack, no amount of reconditioning is going to repair it - EVER!

    A successful repair can be done with a single $30 hobby charger. It takes a long time - a very long time - but it can be done. For those who are not as cheap as me who want to do the repair much more quickly, then yes, a grid charger is a great tool. BUT IT ISN'T A NECESSITY!
     
    #12 jadziasman, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  13. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    4,812
    3,129
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    I figured someone's bound to have tried that before. Any idea if it's beneficial?

    Good of time as any for an update because moments ago I put the battery on the grid charger. I am doing a charge on the first weekend of each month. It's been running fine and getting 45mpg highway in the summer heat with heavy a/c use (can't wait for some cool weather). Techstream shows all module pairs basically within .1v of each other. Next month during the Thanksgiving break, I plan to do the longer charge/discharge reconditioning process.
     
    #13 fotomoto, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    m.wynn likes this.
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    4,812
    3,129
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    4 month update:

    I perform an 18-ish hour balance charge at the first of each month so this is the 4th one since the repair. The pack now peaks at 237v (picture in OP is 233v) during the process. According to prolong charts, peak range should be 234-241v. Mileage has risen to 47-48mpg some of which I also attribute to slightly cooler weather.

    Decided to move the multi-day conditioning treatment (with the light bulb discharger) to the winter holidays. That will be the 6th month since repair and will make it much easier to remember when to perform future reconditionings (jan/july) as they are recommended twice yearly.
     
    #14 fotomoto, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
    jeff652 likes this.
  15. Abdulaziz_Barham

    Abdulaziz_Barham Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    68
    2
    0
    Location:
    Jordan-Amman
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    Mr fotomoto , to clear the process for the tist
    1-remove the HV batt
    2-test each cell by avometer
    3-empty each cell by Bulb
    4-re-test each cell again by avometer
    5-then rearrange or replace the weak cell
    6-and clean the cooper

    is these steps are right ?? i do not need to charge the batt by home cable 220 v ??

    Pleas help me to understand it

    thank you in advance
     
  16. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    4,812
    3,129
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    7-reinstall HV batt
    8-cycle charge/discharge batt with 120v charger/discharger to balance all modules

    I have not tried other methods. Some have used hobby chargers designed for toy remote control cars to charge each module. Takes a lot of time but some buy multiple charges to speed up the process. I have no experience with those. See: Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement | PriusChat

    GOOD LUCK!
     
    Abdulaziz_Barham likes this.
  17. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    590
    608
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    When using our products on a battery that is known to have failed cells, we recommend doing one cycle (charge->discharge->charge), then load testing the cells to identify weak/failed ones, replace them, then cycle the pack three times to normalize the replacement cells to the rest of the pack. You can read more about the process here:
    Battery Reconditioning Overview - Hybrid Automotive
     
    Abdulaziz_Barham likes this.
  18. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,822
    669
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
  19. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,822
    669
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    fotomoto. Pls I'm considering using my inverter/charger rated equipment @ 110volts and 50A fuse to recondition a Prius hybrid battery.
    Need your advice please!!!!!
    * can I modify the charger to take care of the task? Would it work? Must I own a prolong charger before reconditioning?
    *do I need sets of known resistors for my charger to be able to perform this task?
    *can you provide a schematics if I'm to use this charger? How do I connect it to the.battery pack for charging?

    Thanks
     
  20. Abdulaziz_Barham

    Abdulaziz_Barham Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2016
    68
    2
    0
    Location:
    Jordan-Amman
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring

    --

    I am in JORDAN- Amman and i do not see any charger in all the country since the hybrid is quite new

    how i can do it ?
     
Loading...