My PiP - After One Year (Stats)

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by usbseawolf2000, Oct 24, 2013.

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  1. aventineavenue

    aventineavenue Junior Member

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    I commute 34 miles each way in a Volt (on rather hill roads which is a minus, but ranging from 35 to 55 mph only, which is a plus), so I can share those numbers with you.

    I use only ~6 kWh on the best driving summer days, so that equates to ~ 180 Wh per mile. On the worst winter days (I live in New England), it can be north of 8 kWh, so more like 240 Wh. Again, like you only heated seats and the occasional defrost, so a pretty good apples to apples comparison.

    So just averaging the two numbers gives ~210 Wh per mile. However I would say that that is probably on the high side as a true average, as more than 6 months of the year days are like the fair weather number than the bad weather one. So let's call it an average of 200 Wh per mile.

    Now this doesn't really take into account that I do consider myself a pretty adept "hypermiler", drive in the Volt's 1 pedal "L" mode, and minimize quick starts and maximize regen (however I do always drive at least the speed limit, typically 5 to 10 mph over.)

    So I'd say the two vehicle are fairly close in EV efficiency and that's what I'd expect. Because of the PIP's ~500 pound weight advantage, I'd expect with the same passengers & cargo, nearly empty it would edge out the Volt in efficiency ever so slightly. But I believe driver Technique (along with Terrain & Temperature) has a greater effect.
     
    #21 aventineavenue, Nov 9, 2013
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  2. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I'm averaging 165 Wh/mile so far. But that is before charging losses, and that isn't including the upcoming winter (bought in June).
     
    #22 markabele, Nov 9, 2013
  3. Alan Claver

    Alan Claver Junior Member

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    Bummer. That I couldn't get a PiP in PA. 8-( I settled for a 2013 Prius type 5. My driving would have fit right into the PiP - 6 mile commute to work one way 5x per week. I might never have used any fuel. :cool:

    Still pretty happy getting 50mpg or so.
     
    #23 Alan Claver, Nov 9, 2013
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Thanks for sharing. A good data point to know. I hope more Volt and Leaf owners share their data (better or worse).

    My typical trip on those EV miles are 2 miles round trip with 10 stop lights and one stop sign. If I time it well (if traffic flow allows), I can skip about half the lights. The light at the bottom of the hill is the crucial one. So, that's the type of driving condition over here.

    What is your gas mileage lifetime efficiency? Just wondering.
     
    #24 usbseawolf2000, Nov 9, 2013
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Top 2 guys from the PiP Top 20 MPGe thread got 152 Wh/mi and 155 Wh/mi. That's not for 1,000+ miles though.
     
    #25 usbseawolf2000, Nov 9, 2013
  6. Smurf1000

    Smurf1000 Junior Member

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    I am a Volt owner and have a similar daily commute (about 30 miles/day avg.), but do not have access to public charging at work or lunch, so 100% of my EV miles come from home charging.

    In 2 years I have 22,000 miles, and 18,000 EV miles which adds up to 19% gasoline miles. 95% of the gas miles came on long road trips.

    My lifetime MPG after 2 years, excluding electric costs, is 198 MPG.

    To answer your question about Wh/mile from other plug in owners..... I am closer to 250 Wh/mile average, compared to your 218. Some of that is from heavy use of AC in the Phoenix summers, and some of it due to my driving like Richard Petty a little too often. :)
     
    #26 Smurf1000, Nov 27, 2013
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  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    250Wh/mi with 15% charging loss is about 115 MPGe. You sure beat the EPA figure for electric miles.

    The missing part of the fuel economy equation is, of your gas miles. Deriving from your numbers come out to 36 MPG, a bit below EPA estimate.
     
    #27 usbseawolf2000, Nov 28, 2013
  8. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Nice stats usb!
    About 380 full charges per year.
    For sake of housekeeping: in the 'average EV range' formula, change the 10761 miles to 4757 (EV) miles (you did calculate with 4757).
     
    #28 giora, Nov 28, 2013
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Thanks, fixed.
     
    #29 usbseawolf2000, Nov 28, 2013
  10. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Half of the 22 cts/kWh, all-in, on Long Island. Which $uck$ for PIP sales....
     
    #30 Air_Boss, Nov 28, 2013
  11. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    That's why I flew to that area to buy mine. ;)
     
    #31 markabele, Nov 28, 2013
  12. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Thanks for supporting the local economy!
     
    #32 Air_Boss, Nov 28, 2013
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  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    22 cents/kWh still costs less than gas.

    4,757 EV miles would cost $262 after 15% charging loss added.

    If I have to use gas for those short trips, I would not get 50 MPG. Even if we use that optimistic number, it would cost $343 at $3.6 per gallon.
     
    #33 usbseawolf2000, Nov 28, 2013
  14. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Sure, it pencils, but not as a slam dunk, after CAPEX premium of PIP plus necessary home charging infrastructure.
     
    #34 Air_Boss, Nov 28, 2013
  15. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    It's not (only) about the money.
     
    #35 giora, Nov 28, 2013
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    NY electricity is one of the cleanest.

    My CO2 emission from 56 MPG gas is about 198 g/mi. For my electric mile, it is about 90 g/mi.

    If I save money, good for the environment and good for national energy security, it is a slam dunk.

    PiP cut down about half of my gas usage. Over its lifetime, that's 1,500 gallons less. How much does it really cost us to import 1,500 gallons?

    Pretty good return on the $2,500 tax credit / tax payer money.
     
    #36 usbseawolf2000, Nov 28, 2013
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  17. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    The upstate hydro portion, yes, the #6 Bunker and NatGas dominant in LIPA sources, not at all.

    The tax credit subsidy is non-univerally applicable and where applicable is ephemeral.
     
    #37 Air_Boss, Nov 28, 2013
  18. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I checked Beyond Tailpipe Emission site with a zip code from Nassau county. PiP is rated 220 g/mi. That's slightly lower than a regular Prius (222 g/mi) and considerably lower than Prius v (264 g/mi).

    PiP with national grid mix is rated 210 g/mi so LIPA is just slightly higher.
     
    #38 usbseawolf2000, Nov 28, 2013
  19. Smurf1000

    Smurf1000 Junior Member

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    That sounds about right... I have a 2012 Volt, with EPA electric range of 35 EV miles, but consistently get about 43 miles, except in the Phoenix summer when I get from 35 to 37, so it would make sense I am beating the EPA on MPGe. My commute is on city streets mostly. Not driving many EV highway miles helps improve my MPGe average.

    Your math on gas is also correct on gas. 36 MPG is my total gasoline mileage. Most of my gas miles are freeway miles at 75 MPH, so getting 36 MPG is expected. The Volt, like other hybrids gets better gas mileage in the city. Since nearly all my city driving is electric, I really don't know what my city MPG would be.

    When it comes to "buying" gas, I never use up a whole tank of gas before I take a road trip, so I really don't know how long I could go. My longest gap between road trips (and fill ups) is 5 months (about 5000 miles). I can literally say "the only time I buy gas is when I go out of town".
     
    #39 Smurf1000, Nov 28, 2013
  20. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Did you notice any signs of battery aging (capacity deterioration)?
    I am not asking this to make any statement, so don't get me wrong, it is a genuine question to an experienced driver with Li battery. We are in similar boats:)
     
    #40 giora, Nov 29, 2013
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