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My Prius dead again, with techstream this time.

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by gromittoo, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Here's a simple solution for clearing up space for the OCC. Just remove the pre-filter air horn and use the M6x1.0 tapped hole that it used to mount it near the engine upper passenger side engine mount.

    intake resonator.jpg air intake horn mount OCC.jpg

    It serves only as a noise attenuator. To see how removing it affects noise, just temporarily remove it to see how much sound attenuation it does provide.
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It would be hard for the resonator to serve "only" as a noise attenuator. The noise that it "attenuates" represents a certain amount of pressure-wave energy in the inflowing air. The resonator doesn't destroy that energy. Instead, it uses that energy to more effectively charge air into the cylinders when the valves open. Having the flow at the inlet be steadier with less pulse noise as a result is one of the ways you can tell it is doing its job.
     
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  3. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The flow straightening occurs in the filter box. The attenuator horn and it's expansion chamber apparently only breaks up sympathetic reinforcing vibrations. Given it's shape, it doesn't provide any enhancing venturi effect to enhance the air stream.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If you are able to demonstrate that more formally, please do.

    Until then, there's simple conservation to think about. Those are Helmholtz resonators without energy-dissipating elements, so, analogous to capacitors in electronics. The mechanical energy of the flowing air isn't being reduced by the resonators (at least, not by any more than the unavoidable friction in the tube), only delayed and returned to the air stream.

    "Flow straightening" isn't what they are about. "Venturi effect" isn't what they are about. They are about resonating with a pressure wave in the intake, so that when the airbox pressure would normally decrease (valve opens during intake) the resonator pressure is adding to it, and when the airbox pressure would normally increase (valve closing) the resonator absorbs a portion of the increase.

    The reduced amplitude of the pressure wave escaping at the inlet is an outward sign of that happening.
     
  5. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    In the early days before computer modeling, Toyota would have built a clear acrylic model of this part, installed multiple pitot static tubes throughout different positions in the model and used a special smoke generator and multiple sound capturing microphones to study all the parameters of this intake piece.

    Attenuators disperse sound to avoid reinforcing sympathetic vibrations. Resonators smooth out a rough sound wave to emit a more ear pleasing sound. They do not perform the same function.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    These are completely recognizable Helmholtz resonators, relatively large empty cavities connected by narrow necks to the side of the inlet passage, where the flowing air blows over them as in playing a flute.

    Here's a relatively informal description of the function of those resonators in the intake airflow.

    Here is one a bit more technical. It is on a motorcycle site and the worked example is for a V-twin, but they include adjustments to the formula for single-cylinder or four-cylinder engines too.
     
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  7. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    It's partly the reason ppl who install short RAM/"cold air" intakes like them, because they make the engine sound sportier. /s

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  8. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    It also frees up space for the OCC. Here are photos of mine and my friend's installs.

    Steves OCC.jpg occ installed Prius V 003.jpg

    Going on five years with no issues. Works perfectly.
     
  9. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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  10. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I have managed to mount the OCC in the engine compartment near the Coolant Reservoir; the same location as @xliderider used. I can't connect the hoses yet, as I am still waiting for a part from China that I bought on eBay.

    I made my bracket entirely out of 2 pieces of 1 inch angle aluminum. Each piece is arbitrarily 4.75 inches long. I used 4 pop rivets to hold them together. I dropped the original bracket bolt into the bowels of the engine compartment, so I stole a heavy duty radiator support bolt from my 98 Neon (Which is waiting for the junkyard).

    I threaded the two holes in the OCC's mounting bracket, so I can hold the OCC to my bracket with 2 Allen head bolts squeezing my bracket against the side of the OCC (see photo Bracket-03). When I get the final part I need in two weeks, I will connect the hoses, and post pics.

    Bracket-01
    Bracket-01.jpg

    Bracket-02
    Bracket-02.jpg

    Bracket-03
    Bracket-03.jpg

    Installed-01
    Installed-01.jpg

    Installed-02
    Installed-02.jpg

    Installed-03
    Installed-03.jpg
     
    #270 gromittoo, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    @gromittoo , you're not bridging between engine and chassis? Hard to tell from the pics. You wouldn't want to do that, the engine is "sprung", shifts positions relative to the chassis.

    Just for a laugh, there's two (Moroso 85474) in mine :whistle::

    F896DD5E-0685-47C5-9992-035AF68264F4.jpeg
     
    #271 Mendel Leisk, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  12. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    One Moroso 85474 OCC costs $160. The Chinese generic / Universal OCC cost $28. I never understood the need for a second OCC, or even where the second oOCC would go.

    I just want to end the oil puddle in the Intake Manifold beneath the Throttle Body.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    There are cheaper, for sure. Yeah just trying to illustrate a "stealth" install. I put the 2 cans in series, and empty them spring and fall. In fall the 2nd can has next to nothing, but in spring it has almost twice as much. Mostly water, some oil though. The second can just kinda fell into my lap: another family member wanted one, then got cold feet, so I thought hey...
     
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  14. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    It does look like it, but I am only using one bolt to hold my bracket. That one bolt also holds the AC refrigerant lines.

    I went out and checked, and my bracket clears the Engine Mount bolt by a mere 1mm. I cannot fix that by loosening the one bolt, and changing the angle of the bracket. If it bracket rattles, I will have to rethink this design. Maybe add a 5mm thick washer under the bracket where the mounting bolt is.

    Another possibility is to 3D print an ABS bracket. I found out yesterday that an old friend of mine has a 3D printer. I need to do an OCC installation on the 2017 Prius as well. 3D printing 2 brackets (One for the 2013, and the other for the 2017) is duck soup.
     
  15. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    OK I get the second can now. You are right about "Stealth". I could not locate your OCCs in the picture. I don't need stealth. I even picked anodized red, to match the "Barcelona Red Metallic" of the car body.
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah not sure how much the engine moves around; I'd think a half inch clear would be safe. Mounting something extra can often have surprising ramifications.

    I mounted mine on a slotted angle bracket bolted atop the lower cross beam, below the air intake. Then the next time I jacked up the front of the car, using the front/central jacking point, I heard all these creaks and groans. That jacking point is on the underside of that beam, and it flexes when used with a jack.

    I added rubber washers between the slotted angle bracket and top of beam. Also used two nuts on the hold-down bolts for the slotted angle: did the first one finger-tight, then the second torqued against the first, to lock it.
     
  17. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Took it out for a ride. Rattles quite a bit. It seems that I should have made the bottom piece a bit shorter. If you look at the photo below, I should be able to cut that extra half inch off that is just extra material (On the left end).

    Bracket-02.jpg

    To this:
    Bracket-04.jpg

    Which when Installed:
    Installed-04.jpg

    Just barely clears the Engine Mount bolt. Just enough so it does not knock. I think I will consider this aluminum version a prototype for a 3D printed version.
     
    #277 gromittoo, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
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  18. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Raise the chassis mount by 1/2” ?
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I had similar issues, just barely enough clear from the AC compressor IIRC. There's always a way. :)

    Maybe snip:

    upload_2021-12-19_12-13-45.png
     
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  20. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    @gromittoo, you can lop off the overhang on your bracket, the corner that extends past the riveted joint. It's unnecessary material that doest lend any strength to the bracket or joint.

    That should give you the clearance you'll need between the bracket and the engine mount. Even more clearance can be found if you further remove material after the initial cut from the bottom corner of the joint area, worse case is you're left with 3 rivets in the joint, which should still be plenty rigid.

    Edit: Just saw your last post, where you did what I just posted. Also, check the clearance between your refrigerant line and your bracket, you can remove material from the bracket if the clearance is tight, you don't want the bracket to damage the soft aluminum refrigerant line.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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