My Prius dead again, with techstream this time.

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by gromittoo, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Well I got a call, it is done. $631 includes the $142 towing charge. Does not include the $320 I paid for the Diagnostic when it was there a week ago.

    I will post what they did for $489 when I get the slip.
     
  2. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Bummer! Glad I ordered the part for $85 delivered.

    Just wish it was not unfortunate for you, grom.

    Guess knowledge and information is everything.
     
    #162 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  3. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    The morning shift Service manager (a woman) called this morning and left message. Apparently the Tech was really concerned about the amount of oil in the IM. Here is what they did (cropped to remove identifying info):

    Page 1:
    ReceiptConicelli-p1-10-21-21sm.jpg

    Page 2:
    ReceiptConicelli-p2-10-21-21sm.jpg

    4 pictures of oil in IM taken by tech:

    ReceiptConicelli-p6-10-21-21.jpg ReceiptConicelli-p5-10-21-21.jpg ReceiptConicelli-p4-10-21-21.jpg ReceiptConicelli-p3-10-21-21.jpg

    I told the guy at the counter that the tech must never have seen a Gen3 without a catch can before. This is pretty much what it looked like 7,000 miles ago when I cleaned out the intake.

    I don't know where all that oil came from. My last oil change (97,726) showed I consumed 1/8 qt, and I am due for another oil change soon (I am at 102,504), and also down 1/8 qt.
     
  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I don't particularly like the old school worm drive clamp. There is a reason why the OEM clamp is an even full radial pressure spring clamp.

    Check out this video.



    Here's why oil and filter changes are really important. 10k is too long to keep the oil.



    Another reason to get an oil catch can.

     
    #164 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  5. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I am thinking that the part is a red herring of sorts. The real fix is the ECU update. If the problem happens to you, remove the air box, and take a picture of the hoses blown off. Next reconnect the hoses, without clearing the codes, and drive to the dealer. Then get the software update.

    It is really awful that Toyota does not automatically do this update whenever the ECU is getting a different update. I wouldn't be $1000 poorer.

    I am a lot more upset about when I picked up the car the first time. The SM that I spoke to gave me misleading information about what happened.
     
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  6. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    It's all about money and the bottom line for all businesses like Toyota. They won't do anything unless it is necessary or forced by government regulation.
     
    #166 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  7. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Good catch. Yeah they charged $4.50 each for three worm clamps? One more reason not to go back.
     
  8. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    You can have sixty of the ones you need in many sizes for $10 on Amazon.



    Again, knowledge is everything.
     
  9. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    I wish they solved the problem at the first visit. Should not have taken two...

    Did the codes match the T--SB?

    And my apologies for the ECU confusion.

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Yeah seriously. Heck even with a catch can you'll still get some.
     
  11. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Thanks for the good advice, grom. The evap valve is so small and light weight, I'd keep it in the car with the printed T-SB.

    If the hoses should blow off, I'd just install it on on the road and drive the car to the dealer for the software update.

    Since I have the HPS shart arm intake, that valve is readily accessible by just removing the two 10mm hex M6x1.0 screws holding the oil catch can and swinging the assembly out of the way to the side. Thanks again, grom, for this valuable advise. occ installed Prius V 002.jpg
     
  12. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    The reason for the second trip is complicated. During the first visit, it was towed in on a Thursday night, and did not get looked at until Monday. I called numerous times on Monday to give them the background info, and to get status. I got promises to call back that were not honored. Finally I get a call at 3:30PM, and that is when they asked questions about the gas, and mentioned the PVC and Evap purge hoses were disconnected.

    Tuesday, I had to take my wife to work, which is near the dealer. I dropped in unannounced, hoping to get status. I was told that the hoses were reattached, and the tech recommended replacement PCV valve and the Evap Purge valve, and then run a "re-calibration" of the Purge valve. I told the SM that I had replaced the PCV three months ago when I cleaned out the Intake Manifold, and EGR system. I probably mentioned something about measuring the EGR_FLOW_INSUFFICIENCY using Techstream.

    The SM must have thought he was doing me a favor by giving me the part number for the valve, and that I could do it myself. No mention thatthe hoses exploding off, and no mention of the TSB, or "reprogramming the ECU" as listed on the second receipt.. I took the car home. It was a really bad job of communication on the part of the dealership, because I took the "Recommendation" that I replace the Purge valve to mean the car was fixed. I considered I got off easy by paying only $320.

    I have already received an eMail from the Toyota Customer Experience Team asking me to rate my experience. I am fuming mad right now, so I am holding off on responding to the request to rate the dealer. I don't ever plan on going back to them (I will buy parts from them, but no service). This is a huge dealership, and I have always had my cars worked on by independent shops that the owner knows me, and their own abilities. If they say I could do it, I trust them. If they really think that a dealer should do it, I appreciate their honesty.
     
  13. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    I just reread a couple/few of your initial posts in your prior thread. You initially note that the sound came from the vicinity of the rear, and they followed that it has to be something to do with the hybrid system, or something to that effect....

    But, that is one busy dealer I know your choice to go back after the 2nd incident must have been a tough one. So no codes were cleared prior to the first tow to the dealer Thursday night? My first instinct is to clear codes then see what comes back. If the codes were not touched they should have found the T--SB and recommended that, but prior to releasing the car. I did notice the discounts they gave you on the 2nd visit. Seems like they at least tried to "apologize" for missing the mark on the 1st visit. (I commend you for letting yourself calm down before filling out the review).

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  14. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I did pull the 12 volt battery, to clear the codes. The codes I was getting were strange (B1000, and an low O2 sensor signal), but I was using a cheap ODBII adapter, and Torque Pro.

    Every time you get service from them, there is a 10% discount card hanging from the rearview mirror with advertisements. If you notice the codes for the discounts they are advertising charges against other departments:
    - New car Sales
    - Used Car sales
    - Parts
    etc.
     
    #174 gromittoo, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  15. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I don't know about Toyota's proprietary service training methods or how experienced the individuals who worked on your car were.

    I do, however, know how the aerospace industry works efficiently in diagnosing faults like yours.

    I've seen service manuals with check list for finding fault and recently electronic diagnostic software, not just for computerized data and fault codes.

    The initial examination should have been a full visual inspection of the vehicle. That would have immediately revealed the "detached evap and pcv hoses."

    In the aerospace industry, a search of "detached evap and pcv hoses" should have intermediately directed to T-SB 0041-15 and the remedy specified. The labor involved would have been an hour's actual work, installing the evap valve and the software update.

    Unfortunately, you paid for their learning experience both in money and time.
     
    #175 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  16. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Argh. Those aftermarket readers tend to read false codes or are missing codes. BUT it is very inconvenient to carry around Techstream with you with the bulky laptop. I don't think the 12V pull would have made their diagnosis more difficult. Anybody with 12V trouble AND something else would have to visit the dealer twice otherwise. They did seem to try to apologize in their own way with those unusual discounts as I already noted you posted. I guess the bottom line is maybe they are too busy, and need to add weekend hours like our own local Longo Toyota, and/or hire more workers if their bays aren't full. (Might be constructive comments)...


    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  17. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I'm still wondering if changing the intake manifold to the updated model would have not resulted in your situation with the evap valve.
     
  18. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    As my experience of driving the car 400 miles after the first visit indicates, the car will run again by only re-connecting the hoses. Reconnecting the hoses will get you home, where you can replace the valve in a more convenient place. Since the P0A0F code is marked as permanent, I am unclear how to clear that code once the hoses are reconnected.


    I believe anyone with the factory air box can access that valve by removing the factory air box. You would need to do that to access the hoses that came off anyway. What stinks is that you need a 10mm socket with a long extension to get the box out. I keep a 10mm ratcheting box end wrench in my car in the tray, which is useful for disconnecting the neg battery cable.

    I might have been able to avoid the second towing charge, if I had thought to check if the hoses were off again. I am not sure why it did not occur to me to check, since I did pull the air box out in an effort to locate the strange whirring sound.
     
    #178 gromittoo, Oct 22, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  19. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I didn't know it at the time, but their service department was open on Saturday until 4PM. That would not have helped me much, since the tech that did the work was on Vacation by then, and I could not get the car to that dealership before closing. I think the problem is that they have too many Service Managers.

    I think what threw them off is that I showed up in person, unannounced. Perhaps the Tech was not finished with his notes on the car, and the SM decided it was OK to let me take the car home. This is not an excuse for failing to give me an adequate explanation.

    I am really against the idea of working with a dealer that wants you to talk to the SM instead of direct contact with the Tech that did the work. It is obvious to me that is where the mis-communication occurred.
     
  20. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    My guess is no. IIRC, the updated design is purely a rerouting of the EGR intake passages to a "Tournament" style, rather than the old "galley" style. The Galley style tends to cause uneven clogging of the passage to each cylinder, since the passages are not the same length. The "Tournament" style means that the EGR gas passage for each cylinder is the same length, and has the same number of bends in it. This reduces the chance of one passage clogging, while the other three are not clogged. The EGR test can't detect if only one passage is clogged, and the one clogged passage is where the head gasket will blow. The tournament style still can have blocked passages, but it will increase the chance that the EGR code P0401 will occur before the HG blows on one cylinder.

    You can overcome the shortcomings of the old style IM with regular EGR passage cleaning. This is a job that takes an hour or two, plus the $20 cost of the gaskets. I did it at 94.5k, and I think I will do it every 50k thereafter (or whenever the IM is off for another reason). I think this should hold off the HG problem.
     
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