My version of Li-ion modules for Toyota/Prius NiMH

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Vencedor, Sep 19, 2025.

  1. mudder

    mudder Active Member

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    Take your time... I'll be here.

    I haven't spent enough time in both camps to fully understand the Toyota mindset...
    ...but if members on other Toyota forums behave like they do here on PriusChat, I think that's the answer.

    Based on my experience with the Toyota's hybrid electronics, there isn't much difference between Honda and Toyota hacking from a technology perspective. Honestly, the Prius is easier from a hardware perspective, as the only electrical interface I have to interact with is a single 8p connector, whereas the Insight has quite a few more other signals to spoof/appease.

    It's funny because most people think that moving to a serial-based architecture makes things harder, but IMO it makes everything easier... with just three wires on the CAN bus, you can basically do anything. This reminds me of a video Andy did a few years back:


    To clarify: Someone from Team Jack thought they were insulting me by branding me with that moniker. I thought it was funny, hence the reason it's now in my signature. Honestly it correctly describes my affinity, so not sure why they thought it would bother me. Bless their heart.

    I'm the first to admit I've logged very few hours in the Toyota ecosystem. However, so far my career odometer is around 70k hours, during which time I've become exceptionally good at assimilating, abstracting, and applying knowledge. In other words, my inexperience with Toyotas specifically doesn't really matter much, because with enough experience it doesn't really matter what logo is slapped onto the device you're tinkering in.

    For example, even though I'm new to Toyota, I'm probably the only person outside Toyota who has deciphered their gen3+ hybrid serial data bus. tbh it wasn't even that hard, although it did require focus for numerous hours. I'm retired, so I get ~80 hours a week to spend on whatever engineering projects I'm most interested in. Not having deadlines breathing down my neck is both a blessing and a curse, particularly since I'm almost always working on several projects simultaneously. Time is certainly my most limiting factor.

    LiBSU only became my primary interest in the last couple weeks. Right now I'm ramping up to 50 hours a week in Toyota Land.

    I don't have a concrete answer to your question. Ask me again next year and maybe I'll have more Toyota domain knowledge.
     
  2. mudder

    mudder Active Member

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    Are you intending to place an inline power MOSFET in series with the pack positive?
    If so, any out-of-bounds excursion will disconnect the traction battery from the hybrid system, which is a jarring customer experience. We're talking MIL and car dead on the side of the road. That design could meet ISO26262 ASIL-C safety requirements, but it won't be pleasant.

    Active balancing is overkill for automotive traction batteries.
    Packs in poor health won't benefit much from active balancing.
    Packs in good health will stay balanced with C/100 passive balancing (e.g. 50 mA for a 5000 mAh pack).
    Active balancing will work, but it's not necessary.

    Yes, LiBSU generates every battery parameter, and has absolute control over battery charging/discharging. Specifically, LiBSU can prevent pack current whenever it wants (e.g. cell full, cell empty, too cold, too hot, etc).

    Moreover, LiBSU has numerous levers to pull to gradually coax the hybrid system into charging/discharging/idling the pack. This allows LiBSU to force/limit/prevent assist/regen without using the nuclear option (i.e. opening a high power MOSFET). Of course, if the SHTF, LiBSU can open the OEM contactors and assert the MIL, too.
     
    #22 mudder, Oct 2, 2025 at 2:45 AM
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2025 at 2:53 AM
  3. Vencedor

    Vencedor New Member

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    This information may be useful if you're about to get into the Toyota/Prius ecosystem.

    In months of testing, the maximum and minimum voltages I've reached on a module are 17.94V (89%) and 14.24V (33%). During peak charge/discharge times,

    Currently, my modules are 4S, so that's 4.48V/3.56V per cell. Perhaps too high, which is why I decided to go with 5S. 14.24V per cell is 2.85V; luckily, 0% on this cell is 2.5V, so it's still far off.

    This means that the MOSFET protection never trips during everyday use. And if it were to go out of range, you'd want it to. In any case, the BMS allows you to configure soft and hard protection.

    If it's overcharged/overdischarged within the limits you configure, it allows you to charge it if it's discharged or vice versa, without completely disconnecting, which would cause errors. And if it exceeds certain values, it will block until you manually resolve the problem. This is what you would look for if the fault is very serious.



    It can be configured to use passive or active balancing. The capacity of this BMS is 600mA, and can be reduced if desired.