NADA: New cafe rules price people out of market.

Do you even read beyond the first few lines?

They are competitive in AWD. The Escape has it. So does the Explorer, Flex, Taurus, and Fusion. They offer it more vehicles than Toyota.

You're just upset that Ford doesn't have a small hybrid with AWD. Then again, nobody does.

How ya figure?
The next gen Fusion is seeing about a 12% gain. Applied to a new Escape, that is 35mpg tops.
The Prius v gets 42. The Escape is 200 pounds heavier without hybrid battery and components. Aero was improved by 15% from the old SUV box shape. So it won't be matching the Prius v there, even if it was closer to the ground.

And you still won't acknowledge the limits of resources. There very well could be an Escape hybrid, but there simply isn't enough batteries for it and the C-max and the Fusion. Honesty time, which of those three would sell the least.

No, Ford just didn't have what you wanted at the time you decided to buy. Why didn't you wait for the C-max or even the Fusion? It appears FWD is fine for you.

Ford left the small hybrid SUV segment. A segment with slow sales. You lament that Ford isn't competing with Toyota. Why hasn't Toyota competed with Ford here? The new Rav4 has been out for years. It's because there is no money in it. The Highlander hybrid is out selling the Escape one, but 600 a month is still low.

With start/stop and ecoboost, a Fiesta can come close to the Prius c in economy while undercutting it by thousands. What's the benefit of taking the time, resources, and money to develope a hybrid for a segment with tight margins?

C-max is on a Focus platform. A platform designed with a hybrid in mind. In Risk, do you hit your opponent's stronghold, or weak terrotories first? The Fusion is taking on the Camry in the sedans, and until the 2012 Camry a much better hybrid. The C-max is in the wagon/tiny van segment, where the Prius v will only have a 6 month presence.

The Escape had a big part in building Ford's hybrid reputation. The market is shifting though, and traditional SUVs are falling in favor of the wagon/crossover. Many have lamented the end of various car models. Continuing to build out of nostalgia isn't going to help a company move forward.

 

Nope. No 30 mpg AWD drive. Ford left the market when it discontinued the Escape Hybrid AWD vs. upgrading it. Imagine if they had produced an Escape Hybrid AWD w/1.6 Ecoboost.

Wow!

It would have been 40 mpg vehicle competing with Prius V and I'd be driving one vs. a Prius.

Instead Ford got out of the hybrid AWD market completely.

I'm on a ProximalSun's Law (similar to Moore's Law) of reducing my gasoline use by 40% every three years (Explorer 19 mpg to Escape Hybrid AWD 30 mpg to Prius 3/3 52 mpg) . Ford was a viable choice in 2009 but is out of the market in 2012.

2015 a plug in with 50 mile range should cut my gasoline use 50%-70%. Hopefully a plug in AWD that gets 30-40 mpg in hybrid mode. I'd use no gasoline except for ski trips.

Lexus/Highlander plug-in is most likely to happen. Toyota does have an AWD Prius V like vehicle in Japan (just a couple traction motors on the rear wheels that kick in when needed). Adding plug in to that would provide a 40 mpg plug.

But for US market, Lexus/Highlander AWD plug-in is most likely my next car in three years. Ford has left the building.

 

The benefits of ecoboost overlap with the benefits of the hybrid. Mainly the engine downsizing, and it will lose the benefits of the Atkinson cycle. It'll increase cost for little gain.

 

Hybrid gain would have been same as in Escape, 25%. More if they made improvements to their hybrid system as Prius has demonstrated.

Escape AWD 2.4L 21 mpg
Escape AWD 2.4L Hybrid 28 mpg.

Ford could have had an Escape AWD Hybrid at 35-40 mpg available in 2013.

 

cant put ecoboost on a hybrid.

or

they did not bother to figure out how to do it.

one or the other.

 

You can definitely put ecoboost or diesel in a hybrid. BMW's activehybrids use turbocharged direct injection engines very similar to ecoboost. The problem lies in pricing and efficiency gains. At least according to ford the hybrid bits add about $3K, the ecoboost bits add about $1K to the price of a car. The ecoboost isn't going to add that much efficiency to a hybrid. Their 2 litre atkinson hybrid has about 190hp, if you don't want more power than its not worth adding an extra $1K.

Ford decided that those that want an efficient SUV/CUV will want the extra mileage of the c-max instead of the escape. Putting it in anouther car costs a great deal of NRE money, and they did not think it was worth it at this point. If hybrid sales take off, they may add it to the escape also. But if you are going to spend the extra $3K for hybrid ford reasons you may want to downsize to the 45mpg vehicle. Its pretty simple. Toyota similarly wants people to downsize to the prius v. Ford is finding that more of the never nevers (never tow never need 4wd) are not buying their 4wd vehicles as they were in the late 90s. They expect the escape ecoboost will sell to those wanting a low priced efficient suv. The rav4 and crv are its competition and neither toyota or honda are putting a hybrid in these vehicles.

 

All this talk of what Ford should have could have would have done should be discussed in context and argumentors should keep in mind that since 2006 the company was on the verge of bankruptcy! They just recently were moved out of "junk bond" status to the lowest level of "investment status" and therefore they had essentially a terrible credit rating. They are just now able to secure lower interest rates on money borrowed to produce new technologies/vehicles. I'm not sure it is a wise strategy to build vehicles with a questionable return value when you are such tight financial constraints.

 

ok, so its the latter. i suspected it was one or the other which is why i mentioned both.

i also am confused because it was a consistent 25,000 units a year which is pretty good for a high end vehicle at that price point.

but there is a lot of competition coming out. specs are a bit lacking at this point and so it remains to be seen whether other Ford Ventures will cover the need the FEH provided.

 

Ford marketing expects the c-max hybrid and energi as well as eco-boost escape and prius v to greatly reduce demand for the FEH. Only time will tell. I would expect a awd version of the c-max energi would be a better use of resources.