NASA blows hole in global warming alarmism

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Trebuchet, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Agree. I'll use history as my guide. Government whipsaws taxes like crazy depending on who is in power. Additionally, it puts revenue in competition with unbiased regulation. A simple example is small towns setting up aggressive speed traps, not to provide safe roads, but shake down vacationers for their money.

    Vastly better is government establishing "reasonable" regulations. Very hard to do, but as long as the revenue and political gain is kept out, proper steps are made.

    I'll use a strange example, California has made some good progress when they required XX% of both cars and power to be non-polluting. That actually increased consumer choice (you could buy an electric car, or voluntarily buy renewable electricity). It was easily enforced. It forced businesses to plan ahead. It did not pick technology winners and losers. Most important was that it directly addressed the core issue to be solved in a long term manner. It was virtually impossible to game. Cap and Trade would be gamed beyond comprehension.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I generally don't like a 'sin subsidy' either, which is effectively what we have now. It is a formula for disaster, for national insecurity.
     
  3. priuscritter

    priuscritter I am the Stig.

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    i'm not sure if you guys get what i mean about the dangers of sin tax. the danger is that the government becomes dependent on the tax. then when people actually can't afford to "sin" anymore, revenues for the government go down. so what do they do? tax it more to make up for the loss, or tax something else. it sounds good on the surface (we'll tax something bad so people don't do it) but it never works that way, and it just gives the government more money to carelessly spend and depend on.
     
  4. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    I can see your confusion. The bad part isn't the sin tax in and of itself. The bad part is government becoming dependent on said tax. If they thought of it as an unexpected bonus, it would not be a bad thing.
     
  5. priuscritter

    priuscritter I am the Stig.

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    that's my basic point yes. however, i also am not a big fan of sin taxes because i don't think the government needs to legislate behavior quite to the extent that it does. all of these talk about taxing candy bars, taking toys out of happy meals and banning salt really rubs me the wrong way. This isn't Saudi Arabia where the government should be dictating my life.
     
  6. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nope, this is America where you expect the government to pay for your choices.
     
  7. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Ah, I can see your confusion... it is not their money.
     
  8. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    So, PC, what taxes, or form of taxes do you/would you support?

    Icarus
     
  9. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    IMHO it does not really matter either way the era of cheap gas is gone.

    the question becomes who you pay to: oil companies, car makers and/or government. Paying to government has a benefit of easing up budget situation.
     
  10. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    Ah, yes. A magic fairy is supposed to wave her her magic wand and *poof* roads and bridges and hospitals and schools all appear by themselves and obviously nobody had to pay anything for them!
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    ^^ Spidey is a tea bagger -- there is no basis for discussion.

    I see this played out every day in different forms ..

    A senile family member is brought to the hospital and left in the ED for the state to care for because the family does not want to provide;

    A motorcyclist riding without a helmet is involved in an accident and becomes a vegetable. The family demands full life support, courtesy of the state.

    ... the examples are never ending. Tea baggers demand 'freedom' to be social hypocrites.
     
  12. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    You know if they focused on the basics as you mentioned, we wouldn't have a downgraded rating now. But it simply isn't about the basics anymore. :mad:
     
  13. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Resorting to name calling again eh, sage? Those guys are far to tame for me. :p
     
  14. priuscritter

    priuscritter I am the Stig.

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    sure sage, but i bet it's all fine and dandy for the state to provide welfare to every dead beat who is too lazy to work. we don't dare touch entitlement programs in this country. we'd rather destroy out credit with the rest of the world.

    we need to get back to a state of independence in this country.
     
  15. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    PC, I nought you exiled yourself from the political forum? How about you leave your tired, one size fits all "all government bad, all taxes are bad" argument for that forum and leave the science to those that have learned opinions?

    Icarus

    PS Do you actually know how much of the federal budget is devoted to "dead beats who are too lazy to work"? (as compared to corporate welfare)
     
  16. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Please describe what you believe are "the basics". Corporate welfare, continued waste in a military, industrial, corporate, congressional triad that spends billions on systems that we don't need, often don't work, and indeed aren't even asked for by the military just for the sake of "jobs", when those same tax dollars could be spend investing in long term infrastructure in things like roads, bridges, education etc, that pay long term dividends? How about Ag subsidies to giant corporate "farmers"? Or tax breaks so that people who make more in a year than you or I might make in our life time, pay little or no taxes.

    So please, inform us as to what you think are the essential basics!
     
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  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    And the difference is ? Just that you decide who is the 'deadbeat.'
     
  18. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Another vacuous statement, like 'freedom.'

    Both can only exist when responsibility exists, and Americans in general, republicans more specifically, and tea baggers most of all, think responsibility is something the other guy needs.

    Find me five tea-baggers who grasp that environmental degradation is not a right they can demand as responsible, free individuals because future generations cannot give it away. Heck, find me two. What am I thinking ? Find me ONE
     
  19. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I'll volunteer.
     
  20. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Yes basics like fighting unnecessary war in Iraq b/c Saddam overinflated the oil reserves and giving tax breaks to Richie-rich .. sorry to job-creator job-creators.
     
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