Need to decide on synthetic oil: price versus performance

:mrgreen: I drive a 2004 silver Prius and have changed the oil using Mobil 1 5W30 Synthetic. I've also ridden 35000+ miles on my Harley using Mobil 1 15W50 Synthetic and it seems to like it alot. I buy it a Walmart in 5 quart plastic jugs for usually less than 20 bucks. Might as well use the good stuff.

 

"Price versus performance"? Is that the reason you bought a Prius in the first place? I bought my Prius to use less petroleum, and that's why I use Mobil 1 synthetic (one which does not use petroleum as its raw material). It's also an excellent lubricant but not so much better than dino-oil to be worth the added cost on that basis alone.

 

An extra few months of engine life is only going to help the person who drives the car until the engine blows.

Longer change-intervals is good for the environment but voids the warranty.

Starting: the Prius engine spins up under no load. By the time you have load, you have oil pressure. (Not absolutely sure of this, but that seems to be how I've heard it explained.)

The only reason I can see for synthetic is the extra couple of mpg that some folks report getting. Is there any scientific data on this? Or just user testimonials?

And I've seen contradictory opinions on whether it's okay to switch back to dino after using synthetic; so if you eventually sell your Prius (as I intend to do when the next major model revision comes out) you limit your potential buyer base to people who want to use synthetic, or who believe it's okay to switch back to dino. A person who buys a used car may very well not want to commit to the added expense of continuing with synthetic oil.

 

As far as switching between Synthetic and Dino Oil. I have never understood WHY one was committed to using Synthetic forever more once one crossed that line.

Also. What is the raw material for synthetic oil?? I don't know, and obviously they have to start with something. :?: :?: :?:

 

FYI, the Toyota dealer I went to for my first oil change had synthetic on hand and used it in my oil change.

As far as 'synthetic will make the car last longer' as being a bad argument - well, even if you sell your car, someone else will be driving that car after you, and then they will have a car that lasts longer - nothing wrong with that.

I went with syn because well, it's not real oil. I want to be the least dependant on a substance that's only going to get more and more expensive.

-m.

 

If you get in a situation where you are making a warrantee claim, and they ask for maintenance records, you need to be able to prove that you maintained the car in accordance with the maintenance schedule.

(Unless you get that waiver from Toyota I suppose)

If you 'can't find' the records, the arbiters reaction will be - "Oops, Too Bad, So Sad .... Next".

The burden is on you to PROVE the maintenance occured.

And yes, they will accept Oil and Filter reciepts that match the dates when you claim you did the maintenance yourself.

But, if you're buying Oil and Filters for maintenances you don't do just to get reciepts, that seems to me to kind of defeat any savings by extending the oil change interval.

As far as the switch back to Dino once you've gone synth, I've never really understood it either.

But, my Toyota Dealer offers Mobil1 as an option, however they stress VERY HARD that once you go to the synth you should NEVER EVER go back to Dino oil.

Maybe it's time to try to figure that one out, hehe.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're planning on basically lying to them if you have a problem.

Whether or not you can 'get away' with it is something I certainly wouldn't have an opinion on.

 

I have no idea why either, but I have seen opinions from people who ought to know on both sides of the question whether or not you can switch back to dino after using synthetic. However, the re-sale issue is not whether you can or not, but whether your potential buyer wants to use dino and thinks he cannot.

Apparently some kinds of synthetic are made from petroleum (but processed differently) and others are not. I have not yet found anyone who can say what the others are made of.

How many Toyotas are junked because the engine blew, and how many are junked because the rest of the car fell apart? In the end, engine life does not matter for the cars in the latter group. Only the former.

I think I'd use synthetic if it gave me an extra 3 mpg (for the environmental impact, not for any possible cost savings). But I'm still wondering if there is real evidence for this, or only the subjective reports of users.

 

Without a clear answer to my question about the raw materials that go into Mobil 1, I just went to the Mobil 1 website to look for the answer. None found on the website, but I did post it as a question there, though their disclaimer at the top makes it unclear as to whether they will actually choose to answer my question.

What I did find is that in several places, Mobil 1 specifically states that one can go back and forth between Mobil 1 and dino oil with impunity.

Also in their answer to the interval between oil changes, they pretty much stayed with stating that one should stick with the manufacturer's recommendation.

Hope they choose to answer my question. If so it will be on their website not sent directly to me. If I find the answer I will post it here.

Jon

 

You can get a start by googling "synthetic oil ester". Synthetic lubricants are made of esters (an alcohol reacted with an acid), polyalphaolefins, polyglycols, and who knows waht else. One helpful page is http://www.machinerylubrication.com/articl...oup=Lubrication

As to the composition of specific motor oils, the manufacturers do seem to be kind of vague about it.

 

The Prius ICE produces 76 hp and revs no higher than 5000 rpms. It is always off when the car is "idling" and sometimes is off a fair amount of time during a normal city-country drive. It seems to me that if there's an engine that does not need the protection of synthetic oil, it's this one.

 

im sorry but i dont see that mileage should be the determining factor for oil changes. Auto manufacturers use mileage because it is conveinent and a measureable yardstick that we all know.

but in the Prius where its conceivable that some cars wear on the ICE will be dramatically different depending on how they drive and in what conditions they live.

Toyota's recommendation is probably the maximum safe interval and that in otherwise easier road and driving conditions, that interval should be adjusted simply because to not do so is using oil faster than is necessary.

Because synthetic oils are more slippery, yet thinner, and also better at coating parts, i would think the interval should be longer. Also because the ICE usually does not start from a standstill, the "dry cylinder" syndrome doesn't apply to the Prius as much as a normal ICE.

I guess what we need is some long term experience with classic owners. Does anyone have a Prius with say 100,000 or more miles on it? How is it holding up? I would be more interested in long term stats from the 04 though since the car has been revamped so much.

But for the guy driving 100 miles a day, i see no reason why you couldnt go 10,000 miles as im sure the conditions are much easier on the car than most.

My dad was in the Army stationed in Greenland. He told me that any vehicle that was there was started up when it first arrived and kept running all the time. The weather was so cold there that a vehicle that stopped running for more than a few minutes would freeze up causing a large amount of damage to the engine upon start up.

he also said that he saw vehicles that ran 24-7 for up to 3 years and the oil was still nice and clean.

so i would toss the mileage thing out and consider how many trips, startups and whatnot you do when considering oil wear. In the Prius, the very nature of the "start at 40mph" ICE says that other than cold startups, there will not be as much wear as any other car.

 

In doing some warranty researvh, I found this on Royal Purple's website (Royal Purple is a top of the line full PAO synthetic oil manufacturer that is right up there with Mobil 1, Redline and Amsoil).

===============================
How often should I change Royal Purple® in my passenger car?


Royal Purple® recommends following the manufacturer's maintenance intervals while the vehicle is under factory warranty. In clean engines that are no longer under warranty, oil change intervals up to 12,000 miles with continued filter changes every 3,000 to 4,000 miles (top-off oil as needed) are recommended. In dirty engines, Royal Purple® recommends standard 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil and filter change intervals until the engine oiling system is clean and free of deposits, which are left by lower quality oils and / or poor maintenance or mechanical problems. This will allow time to gradually remove existing deposits / contaminants without overloading the oiling system (pump, pick-up, filter, etc.). (Mechanical problems such as fuel dilution, coolant leaks into the crankcase, poor air filtration and / or failure to maintain proper oil level are all detrimental factors to the service life of any engine oil. Any one of these factors can significantly shorten the useful service life of any oil).

 

OK, here is a reason to use synthetic oil I have never heard of before.

"Royal Purple's motor oil typically reduces emission particulates by more than 20%.


Reducing emissions helps to reduce pollution and our impact on the environment."